Making a 6A12 go hard!

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:14 pm

The key is torque not power.

Torque is a measure of the engines ability to turn / rotate a load, while power is a measure of this workload over time. Hence this is why with a relatively flat torque curve the power continues to go up as the revs go up as the amount of work over time increases (i.e. the number of revolutions (turns) per minute).

This is how they get so much power from the FTO. The torque curve is relatively flat, so they just keep upping the revs, and in turn the power figure increases.

However, because the torque curve is relatively flat, the ability of the engine to drive the car isn't much different down low to up high, but as with most marketing, the bigger the number the better and hence this is why most of the focus in on power figures and not torque figures. While they show torque figures, they push the KW figures the most to sound more impressive and to keep the battle of "my dick is bigger than your dick" alive.

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:36 pm

exactly the old saying goes "power is for dynos, torque is for drags".

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:16 pm

Anyway, after driving my car around for a while, this engine is pretty powerfull, especially for a 2.0L
It's got heaps of low end power, I can accelerate easily from 40 km/h in 4th gear. It takes less than about 1 km to reach 170-180 km/h and acceleration in 5th at highway speeds is really good.

Also, after a R33 GTS-T couldn't catch up to me and followed me until I parked my car just to ask what's under the bonnet, I am convinced my car goes pretty hard, especially like I said for an N/A 2L engine.

Still, there is room for improvement, and lot's of it. I wouldn't mind getting roughly 30% more power/torque from this engine, keeping it N/A.

Any recommendations of how to get there? I don't want it to be a dog in traffic though.

Oh, and the Versin R LSD does wonders! Everyone should get one fitted!

afterburner · Post by **afterburner** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:30 pm

spetz wrote:Oh, and the Versin R LSD does wonders! Everyone should get one fitted!

Glad to hear it - although I've never driven an FTO without one

One thing I love about the Mivec 6A12 is the throttle response - its just so much better than the twin turbo 6A12 VR-4 I used to have. The VR-4 was undoubtedly faster in a straight line (once the boost came in), but the handling in the FTO is definitely better. And it's pretty rapid accelerating hard as well, especially in 2nd gear. I do miss the 'kick' of turbo boost, but in general I'm loving the FTO...

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:55 am

afterburner wrote:
spetz wrote:Oh, and the Versin R LSD does wonders! Everyone should get one fitted!
Glad to hear it - although I've never driven an FTO without one

One thing I love about the Mivec 6A12 is the throttle response - its just so much better than the twin turbo 6A12 VR-4 I used to have. The VR-4 was undoubtedly faster in a straight line (once the boost came in), but the handling in the FTO is definitely better. And it's pretty rapid accelerating hard as well, especially in 2nd gear. I do miss the 'kick' of turbo boost, but in general I'm loving the FTO...

what do you mean once the boost came in those little turbo's should be classed as superchargers

not many turbo cars have full boost before 1800rpm

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:19 pm

spetz wrote:Anyway, after driving my car around for a while, this engine is pretty powerfull, especially for a 2.0L
It's got heaps of low end power, I can accelerate easily from 40 km/h in 4th gear. It takes less than about 1 km to reach 170-180 km/h and acceleration in 5th at highway speeds is really good.

Also, after a R33 GTS-T couldn't catch up to me and followed me until I parked my car just to ask what's under the bonnet, I am convinced my car goes pretty hard, especially like I said for an N/A 2L engine.

Still, there is room for improvement, and lot's of it. I wouldn't mind getting roughly 30% more power/torque from this engine, keeping it N/A.

Any recommendations of how to get there? I don't want it to be a dog in traffic though.

Oh, and the Versin R LSD does wonders! Everyone should get one fitted!

30% is a big ask! So basically your aiming for 200KW's NA 2.0L? It might be possible to achieve this number but big bucks are needed to get to this. The turbo route should be cheaper, that itself isnt cheap!

The GTS-T driver must of not know how to drive, you beat the driver not the car

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:40 pm

not really and r33gtst are not quick at all, very heavy, and old, and extremly over rated (stock that is)

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:59 pm

Hmmm i wouldn't say R33 GTsT are old, cause they were made in the same era as the FTO (R33 94-early 99)

mrx · Post by **mrx** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:57 am

So what about supercharging? I am pretty sure that this has been discussed before but how prohibitive would the cost of it be compared to a turbo setup? I personally would not want a massive power increase as this would mean big $$ but to get say 130-150kw @ the wheeels (with an associated boost in torque too) is only looking a low pressure.

The real beauty of a NA car is it's relative drivability. Taking a rex for example, it is kind of an on-off switch - it is either fast (and i mean FAST) or it is slow.

So keeping the boost low, and not touching the compression etc of the engine, would be my preferred choice.

Plus I have not heard of anyone who has done this, so the unique factor is good too.

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:25 am

mrx wrote: Plus I have not heard of anyone who has done this, so the unique factor is good too.

RPW use to have a supercharged kit, but apparently the result was few blow engines.....

so they just stick to turbo charge.

To me it really depends on the car setup, you can setup a really fast N/A car, but you have to spend a lot more money then a turbo setup, plus the car usually become very rough during idle & low speed.

If you set the turbo correctly you can have it spoon up from 2000rpm, of course you will sacrifice the top end, unless you had a sequential twin turbo setup. I could go on forever but I don't want to be a nagging old fart eheheehe

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:33 pm

Spetz,
Where did you get the Versin LSD?
Jeff

fto617 · Post by **fto617** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:14 am

hmm isnt superchargers not good with high revving engine ???

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:31 pm

The person doing the conversion got me the LSD (it's in a lancer)

And yeah, because superchargers run out of puff at higher revs it's not good for an engine which goes to 8000 rpm.

Anyway, the whole point of me getting the V6 MIVEC was to stay NA so not sure if I wanna go forced.

How hard is it to extract extra power from these engines? I heard that because they are highly tuned from the factory it's quite hard getting any power from them (any significat power anyways)

Getting used to the power now... not feeling all the quick any more.

PS. I raced a XR6 non turbo and I was only a bit quicker than him, and at around 130ish he ended up catching up and going in front, though my front wheels have +ive camber and toeing in quite bad so I blame my wheel alignment for that, but anyway how quick are these fords? It was a manual XR6 in the new shape non turbo? I didn't think they were that quick

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:44 pm

i didnt think they were either, i have beaten an xr6 turbo through 1st and 2nd gear, but only but a bonnet. i would of thought xr6s would be simillar to a commadore or magna, which you should leave for dead

csvperformance · Post by **csvperformance** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:11 pm

The LSD sounds very good but does it comprimise handling? Also what gains do you think it would give you over the 1/4 mile?But R33 gts-t's don't go hard? When looking for an FTO on Parra road curiousity got the better and I took one for a test drive. The 6 FTO's I test drove, Manual GPX's to Tip Gr's didn't compare to the R33 in reality it would have killed every one in a straight line (including the slightly modded GPX!)

"i have beaten an xr6 turbo through" How did you manage that (their app 1 sec faster over the 1/4 and 0-100!) My uncle owns one and boy do they go hard! Shame that the blue oval is on the front but!

Slither · Post by **Slither** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:01 am

csvperformance wrote: "i have beaten an xr6 turbo through" How did you manage that (their app 1 sec faster over the 1/4 and 0-100!) My uncle owns one and boy do they go hard!

The car is only as good as the person behind the wheel

csvperformance · Post by **csvperformance** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:49 pm

The car is only as good as the person behind the wheel

So true that! but does anyone know how much an LSD affects handling and how much it improves launches?

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:03 pm

Your probably looking at about 0.5 seconds to a seconds max say if you look at a 1/4 mile time i think. Handling I think you will only sometimes feel it, It all depends which one you get, eg 1.5 way etc...

afterburner · Post by **afterburner** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:26 pm

I can't really compare the LSD to an FTO without one, as I've only ever driven my one. But compared with other non-LSD FWDs that I have driven, the FTO is way less prone to wheelspin, and rarely do I feel like I'm going to have a traction issue (at least in the dry - haven't really driven it hard in the wet yet). Occasionally when I go over a bump or something like that it may briefly lose traction, but in general it is very good. Having said that, the 215 tyres I have no doubt help as well.

Having come from a 4WD turbo sedan, I'm still trying to get used to the FWD handling, but in general it seems very good. I'm planning to take it down the 1/4 when I get it back from being repaired (whenever that might be...) so we'll see how it goes then. Our dragstrip does a very good impression of an icerink, so it will be interesting.

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:29 am

The LSD, I noticed over my old 1.8 is just the the inside wheel does spin on hard acceleration while the steering wheel is turned.
As for handling, instead of spinning an inside wheel, if it's going to lose traction, it just understeers heaps.

R33 skylines not that quick...

XR6 Turbo's are pretty quick.

I had a race with a new SS ute, and we were even till I got into 2nd, where I think he was still in 1st and took off on me. I had 2 passangers though and he only had 1.