Low friction pistons

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:24 am

Integra Type R has low friction pistons, does the FTO have this? Even though the stroke is so small it should definately benefit from these?

Also, if the pistons are change in an FTO, is it worthwhile boring it? How much can it be bored by (how many mm per cylinder) and what effective discplacement will this create? Will it be able to go over 8000rpm still considering the heavier piston?

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:56 am

ok first of all, what do you mean by 'low-friction' pistons?? shouldn'y all pistons be made low-friction anyway??

when you replace the stock pistons on the 6A12, chances are they will have to be custom made (99% of the time they are also oversized) items therefore you will have to bore out the cylinders for extra clearance anyway. the extra bore would prob give you a little increase in displacement but you prob won't notice much torque gains on the road anyway...

With the aftermarket pistons, the additional weight will put extra stress on the stock rods under load so frankly I don't see the point in raising the RPM ceiling beyond 8000-8500... you will only run the risk of fracturing / bending the rods but if it's only something for you to brag about then go ahead and do what you want with it - if you want to keep the motor running reliably, don't make it work so bloody hard.

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:36 pm

If you read about ITR "highlights" it always says low friction pistons.

I didn't read this with any other engine. So there probably is some difference?

As with raising the redline, right now I am more thinking if I go 2.5L where the redline would be. I would like it to stay at least about the same.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:50 pm

don't kid yourself into such 'highlights'... in effect that's just like saying "sporty rear spoiler". just because you often read about this 'highlight' doesn't mean it's better than other cars out there...

assuming you are going for the 2.5l conversion from the 6A13, i wouldn't recommend such a high rpm ceiling (if you use stock internals) because the factory-rated redline is 7000rpm if i'm not mistaken (help me out here James

)

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:50 pm

yes the redline on the VR4 is 7000 RPM, however i think you will find the revlimiter is set to 8000 RPM

but i always have ran my redline at 8500 on the 6A13, so long as you get enough fuel into it and don't detonate the engine, it should be fine at 8500 rpm, especially on stock boost, but i dont drive around hitting 8500 RPM all the time and in 2 years i have blown two engines with stock internals. however this could have been from a bad batch of fuel or bad tuning. Only one thing is certain the engine leaned out and detonated, resulting in melted pistons.

as far as low friction pistons are concerned

, it is called marketing.

ever heard anyone say they have high friction pistons

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:05 pm

No I never heard of high friction pistons...
But ITR is the only car I seen with "low friction pistons"

Anyway, with the 2.5L converion, it will be with forged internals, with a compression ratio of about 12:1, and with other mods like intake, intake manifold, head porting, extactors etc and of course with some high lift stage III cams I think the redline should remain close to 8000rpm or so.

Post by **smorison** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:53 pm

i hope you have deap deap pockets

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:49 am

spetz wrote:
Anyway, with the 2.5L converion, it will be with forged internals, with a compression ratio of about 12:1, and with other mods like intake, intake manifold, head porting, extactors etc and of course with some high lift stage III cams I think the redline should remain close to 8000rpm or so.

You would want to run same damn good fuel with a compression ratio of 12:1 . or KABOOM

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:22 pm

spetz wrote:No I never heard of high friction pistons...
But ITR is the only car I seen with "low friction pistons"

don't you mean the only car you've 'read' about low friction pistons?? big diff there mate...

spetz wrote: Anyway, with the 2.5L converion, it will be with forged internals, with a compression ratio of about 12:1, and with other mods like intake, intake manifold, head porting, extactors etc and of course with some high lift stage III cams I think the redline should remain close to 8000rpm or so.

i'm presuming you intend to keep it NA?? i don't know what the specs are for a 'stage III' cam but i assure you, it sounds BIG and you can expect it will idle like a lousy pig and the powerband prob won't be of much use to you in daily traffic...

my 2c

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:27 pm

GPXXX wrote:
spetz wrote:i'm presuming you intend to keep it NA?? i don't know what the specs are for a 'stage III' cam but i assure you, it sounds BIG and you can expect it will idle like a lousy pig and the powerband prob won't be of much use to you in daily traffic...

my 2c

If he means the RPW stage 3 cams.

It should be OK, as they leave the primary lobes as they are and only modify the secondary set. So the Idle should be OK, but I would think it would create a large kick in the power curve when the secondary set takes over.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:13 pm

Black_FTOGPX wrote:
GPXXX wrote:
spetz wrote:i'm presuming you intend to keep it NA?? i don't know what the specs are for a 'stage III' cam but i assure you, it sounds BIG and you can expect it will idle like a lousy pig and the powerband prob won't be of much use to you in daily traffic...

my 2c
If he means the RPW stage 3 cams.

It should be OK, as they leave the primary lobes as they are and only modify the secondary set. So the Idle should be OK, but I would think it would create a large kick in the power curve when the secondary set takes over.

that would only be the case if he is constructing a 2.5ltr mivec, if he is keeping it as a non mivec 2.5 ltr then there is only one set of lobes.

how about a few more specs on this project and who is doing it?

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:34 pm

well i'm assuming he intends to use the 6A13 which I don't think comes with variable cam / lift like the MIVEC..

you'll be taking a big gamble if you have 2 sets of cams that have a massive difference in duration & lift (both intake / exhaust) between the two because it has the potential to create a 'torque-hole' during the transition...

i suppose you could try to think of it as a sequential twinturbo setup - Imagine then if you have a puny T2 that runs out of puff at 4800rpm (think of this as the primary cam), and then you stick a huge bastard like a T88 that won't make any meaningful boost until 5700-6000rpm or so (now think of this one as the 'stage-III' cam)... what do you think is gonna happen between 4800 - 5700rpm??

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:59 pm

ooops, sorry didn't realise james had already posted his response re the 6A13... we must've been composing our messages at the same time hehe (except mine took longer coz i had to give it about 4 go's at explaining myself without sounding like .....never mind

)

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:51 pm

GPXXX wrote:(except mine took longer coz i had to give it about 4 go's at explaining myself without sounding like .....never mind )

retarded up himself cocksucking hypocrite idiot?

Post by **smorison** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:51 pm

RPW cams are 3k... and they have only sold 1 set (to the uk) and they have no proof that they work, nothing, zilch...

i have spoken with them extensively after crow came back regarding the difficulties in building new ones due to the complex nature of MIVEC cams.

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:25 pm

I was talking about RPW cams.
And the primary lobes are increased by 1 stage whereas the secondary lobes are increased by 2 stages.

Either which way with 2.5L I don't think this should effect idle.
At the same time though the 2.5L is an "if" anyway. It does cost a lot and I am not sure if I will ever do it. But other NA mods do the 2.0L are definately going on.

And I do realise that RPW has no feedback on them and they do cost a lot but there is no other choice. I don't want regrinds.
Unfortunately I do also believe that the MIVEC cams by RPW should work in theory but noone knows what happens in practice.

On another note last night I raced a VR HSV Clubsport and beat it fairly easy at that

And raced an NX Coupe Nissan with I believed an SR20DET (whatever it was, it was turbo) in it and lost only by a little bit.

BuCkEt · Post by **BuCkEt** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:17 pm

Hehe, that NX coupe was the one I was about to race before the cops pulled him over one night.

They chose him because his car went "pssssht".

Where'd you guys end up going last night?? There were about 15 skylines that showed up after you left.

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:43 pm

Ended up just going for a drive through civic, braddon, manuka.
I raced that Clubsport where the parliament house is and that NX coupe on monaro highway going towards hume.

Skylines... I don't care for them, every owner has the "I drive a skyline I'm so good" thing going.

You know what that NX coupe has? It wasn't quick...

SG · Post by SG » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:23 pm

regarding the low friction pistons... glass bead blasted pistons might do the trick. the goal with glass bead blasting is to make a very fine flat, rough surface on usually cylinder heads and pistons so that when oil is drawn along the surface the oil 'holds' or stays there better and more effectively lubricates the sliding of the piston
theres a few websites around on this if u search for em, they'll have more info...

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:20 pm

hmmm...
I don't know about having rough edged pistons...

But, isn't there something you can cover them in?
Like HPC for the heads of the pistons, but something around them?