0 compression after Nulon Foam intake cleaner 0.o ??

[kermut]

so this is a question for more the mechanical minded people ..

So today i was servicing my car, the normal stuff.. i bought some foam intake cleaning stuff in a can.
i sparyed it into my intake with the car on, was running perfect for about 5 mins then died, tried cranking it nothing, i checked spark and fuel, both are there :s...so i checked the compression its on almost zero...the last time i checked it it was sitting on just under 200psi each cylinder...im stumped...as to what happen...any ideas guys? BEN???

[Shane001]

"foam intake cleaning stuff in a can"

Even if you're rings were shot you would still get some compression cranking the engine? Sure you're doing it right? The compression guage is working? Put you're finger over a plug hole while cranking and see if any air comes out?

[Astron_Boy]

I've used the upper engine cleaner with a decent result.
Zero issues.

There is something else a miss in your case.

Hang on.
So, you say you were cranking it, is it simply not turning over?
With the foam stuff, it will make the car hard to start, have to keep throttle de-pressed when turning it over and then the engine sorts itself out.

As for your comp.... *shrug* doing it wrong, or something.

[Taz]

what is the 'general stuff' you did to your car? Like astron said, i highly doubt it was the cleaner, and how could that cause 0 compression anyway?

[Bennoz]

Huh? +1 on the foam cleaner.

How many cylinders we talking about with lost compression?

Might be time to pop the rocker cover off & rotate the engine by hand, have a look at valve movement....

[Dras]

If it was me, the first thing I would do is step away and sleep on it. Things are always clearer after a good dump and a hot shower.

Now, just so we are on the same page, to do a compression check, you would:
1) disconnect the fuel pump from under the rear seat so that you don't have fuel going every where.
2) crank the car so that the fuel pressure dissipates
3) remove air intake and upper intake manifold.
4) remove all 6 spark plugs

Now seeing as you have attempted to do a compression test, i will assume you are roughly here. As a sanity check place 6 scrunched up tissues, 1 in each spark plug hole. Crank the car for 5 seconds using the starter motor. If all is well, the tissues should have been ejected from the spark plug holes. If the tissues have been ejected, you clearly don't have 0 compression and you can breath a sigh of relief, if they have not, you will need to investigate further.

If the tissues were ejected, I would be looking at your compression tester and the quality of all the seals.

If they were not, I would be getting a 6 say 30cm long balsa wood sticks, or similar, that will easily fit in the spark plug holes and placing them in the spark plug holes (remove tissues first). Hand crank the motor via the crank shaft and watch how the wood sticks move up and down. You are looking for, if I recall correctly, about 5cm of travel on each cylinder and the min and max height of the protruding balsa should be the same across all cylinders. If this is the case, your conrods are fine.

Oh, and once all is well, don't forget to replace your engine oil + oil filter, the foam will have no doubt contaminated it.

[Shane001]

Now, just so we are on the same page, to do a compression check, you would:
1) disconnect the crank angle sensor.
2) crank the car so that the fuel pressure dissipates
3) remove air intake and upper intake manifold.
4) remove all 6 spark plugs

Corrected This disables fuel and spark

[Dras]

I always just remove the coilpacks to disable the spark but that would work also and is probably easier than disconnecting the fuel pump.

While i work with computers and make my living with them, for me there is just something reassuring about completely removing elements as opposed to asking the computer politely not to activate them.

[kermut]

thanks for the replies guys really appreciate it.

ok so ill tell you the full story and what i have tried in detail.

decided to service the car as it was time, did a oil and filter and spark plug change. once i done that i had put everything back to normal started the car, she started perfectly...i then started to spary the foam intake cleaner into the intakewhile reving the engine...i also sparayed it through the PVC valve pipe, i stoppped reving it and it died and didnt want to start again. so i assumed it was the spark plugs, when and bought some new ones..no change turn the key and it just turns doesnt even sound like its mtrying to start...

next i i checked fuel and spark both present, puzzled i called a friend he told me that i cleaned the piston cylinder too much and that the foam crap and gone passed my rings and thats why i have none or xero comppresion :O...ive never heard of this so i got a compression tester and done it it showed 20psi on the front three cylinders...i put a cap of oil in and the compression went upto 75psi..interesting...so my friend told me to put a cap of oil in each cylinder and try crank it...still nothing ....

ps i did the disconnect the fuel pump trick to clean out the cylinders still didnt help...im at the point where i think im gona have to rebuild it..as my compression was sitting on 200 psi on each cylinder las time i checked it...

The guy that tuned my car told me that if i can get the car started that the compression will return as an evo he was workign on did the same thing and they started it with some oil..and then they checked the compression the next day and it was 150psi on each cylinder :s....hows that work???

any help would be great guys

[Dras]

The foam intake cleaner should have been used first as you will now have to replace your oil again, but I am guessing that is the least of your concerns at the moment.

It is possible that the intake cleaner has either removed crud from the cylinder wall that was aiding in the sealing of the rings or, and what I would think is more likely, has introduced particles into the cylinder that have ruined the seal between the rings and the cylinder wall.

I would use a mild electronics cleaner such as this http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NA1004 (just check that it evaporates completely and leaves no residue) in the intake manifold, PCV + tubing and on the throttle body to ensure you are not putting more crap into the cylinder. Just spray liberally, slosh around and drain the excess until what comes out is clean. For areas you can get to, you can agitate with a toothbrush or similar.

'A small amount' (quoted from the FTO workshop manual) of engine oil can be poured into the spark plug hole (obviously while there is no spark plug installed) to help with compression. I would use a thick, cheap mineral oil. Hopefully this will be enough to get the engine started. Once started, hopefully everything will correct itself.

[spetz]

Is the crank angle sensor accessible from the top of the engine bay?

[kermut]

hey dras, thanks for replying..what you said about cleaning the crud off the cylinder walls, thats what my friend reckons too..but on all cylinder??? :/......i tried the oil trick no go...so ill leave it for a a week or two and let the oil i put into the cylinders to sink in then try start it....you reckon the foam sh*t will eventually seep through the rings and drain itself???

otherwise ben or anyone know where i can get a set of rings and head gasket kit from...ive called bursons with no luck ..

@spetz the crank angle sensor is at the bottom behind the main crank pully so no ..but i have spark and fuel which means the crank angle sensor is fine

[kermut]

sorry ben forgot to say yeah already took the front rocker cover off and manually turned the crank all the valves move freely..but i have a question..the valve springs are always pulling the valves up yeah untill the cams push it down..so theres no way a valve can stay open right ??

[fraz91]

the valve springs are always pulling the valves up yeah untill the cams push it down..so theres no way a valve can stay open right ??

The only way a valve will stay open is if something is obstructing the valve seat, the tappets aren't correctly adjusted or if the valve is bent. If it's incorrect adjustment (which from memory is done hydraulically on the 6A13TT) then it shouldn't be too hard to fix up (bennoz?). It's unlikely that you've managed to bend a valve in EVERY cylinder, but some crud may have the valves sticking open by obstructing their seats.

Easiest way to check for a bent valve or obstruction is to rotate the motor by hand so that the piston is at TDC and all valves are closed on that cylinder. Shove a compressor hose into the spark-hole and pressurise the chamber. If you can hear the compressed air hissing out through the intake or exhaust, it's a valve problem.

[Shane001]

Is the crank angle sensor accessible from the top of the engine bay?

The plug to disconnect it is

[kermut]

thanks for that fraz, im an electronically minded person..mechanical comes after that for me...i thought you cant adjust the valves? :0...how to i adjust them?...the engine stumbled and died while using this foam crap..could this have adjusted the valves?...gona have to post a pic up so all the members know not to use the stuff...

[Shane001]

If there is foam down in the cylinders that hasn't cleared, maybe try squirting some CRC 5:56 or similar into each of the cylinders and let it sit for a few hours. But you're gonna need to take all your intake off and clean it all properly (use CRC CarbyCleaner). Maybe see if you can get hold of a bore scope and have a look down inside the top of the cylinders.

And yeah once you get it all working again you're gonna need to do another oil change, or two.

[Shane001]

gona have to post a pic up so all the members know not to use the stuff...

I think the moral from this story is, don't use foam crap in your engines

[Shane001]

Easiest way to check for a bent valve or obstruction is to rotate the motor by hand so that the piston is at TDC and all valves are closed on that cylinder. Shove a compressor hose into the spark-hole and pressurise the chamber. If you can hear the compressed air hissing out through the intake or exhaust, it's a valve problem.

Leak down test, infinitely more useful than a compression test

[aza013]

gona have to post a pic up so all the members know not to use the stuff...

I think the moral from this story is, don't use foam crap in your engines

or a sertan fuel company's fuel .