Car died

[klyfe]

Did a mini service three or four weeks back. Changed the oil, check the water, new oil filter, put fresh coolant in.

Was in town the other day, and all was fine. After doing some shopping, got in my car and the a/c wasn't working. Figured I must have just blown a fuse.

Started making my way towards the highway to get home, didn't want to stay in town when there may be something more serious wrong. As I was pulling up at a set of traffic lights, as soon as I went into 2nd gear, the engine shut off. No stuttering, no warning, just gone. I have had it stall in extreme heat in the past so didn't think a great deal of it.

Restarted the car, which took a bit more hoaxing than usual, and continued driving. Got to the next set of traffic lights and it cut out again. I had no where that I could pull off the road, so just had to force it to restart and get it to the next intersection so I could turn off and park. It took 5 or 6 goes to get it started, the starter motor was ticking over, but the engine just wouldn't restart, and when it did start, it didn't sound right, kind of sounded like a cylinder may have been out or something. I noticed this time that when the engine cut out, the battery and oil lights were coming on.

Headed to the next intersection, and it shut down before I even slowed to second. Got it started again, got around the corner and parked in some shade.

I let the car sit and cool for half an hour and then decided I would see how it was idling. Was fine when I first turned it on, started well, idled as usual, but as soon as I tapped the accelerator, once I took my foot off the revs dropped to zero and the oil light came on. The car continued to run however.

I turned the car off and checked my oil, which was on the minimum line, so it wasn't empty, though I couldn't understand how it had gotten that low in such a short amount of time in the first place.

The RACV came an hour later. There was absolutely no water in the car. They started the engine and revved it, and it seemed to be running fine. They said that they suspected it was the water pump, and I shouldn't be driving it anywhere. The oil was still extremely low at that point, so I figured that somehow it must have leaked without me realising.

It got towed back to RACV and they had a look over it while I was organising for it to get towed to a mates house. Their diagnosis is that the water pump and timing belt are both buggered. Quite plausible.

We got it to our mates house today and the oil reservoir was once again full.

My questions are as follows:-

1. Is the FTO engine an interference or non-interference engine? Is it likely that I have done damage to the valves?

2. Is it normal for the oil to take so long to drain back into the reservoir?

3. Just wanting opinions as to whether or not you guys agree with this diagnosis, or whether something else may be the cause. Have ordered the parts as they will take a week to get here, however I have not had a chance to look at the car yet, and our mates son who is a mechanic hasn't had a look yet either, so any advice on other things we should check would be appreciated.

[Shane001]

Yes it is an interference engine, so if the timing belt has failed you would know about it, valves and pistons don't like it when they're smashed together

As for the water pump leaking, it probably is now as you've likely cooked the engine. But I'd fill it with water and see if you can find the original leak. Check your hoses, check they're tight, check the upper or lower rad tanks aren't cracked, check that you tighted the drain plug, etc. Is your temp guage not working?

If you can find the leak and it wasn't running on no water for too long, you might just get away with it, but you'll want to monitor it closely for a few months.

[dstocks]

Its not the timing belt. If that had snapped, you would not be able to start the car at all. There would be valves in pistons and the universe would have imploded. If the water pump has gone, the engine would have overheated (possibly), but there would still be water in the radiator. If this was bad enough, you may have blown a head gasket, but then there would be water in the oil. You need to pressure test the radiator. Probably one of the hoses has a split in it or you have a leak in the radiator.

[klyfe]

As far as I know the temp gauge is working, which is why I would assume that the water must have drained very quickly.

As the heat sensor is in the water, once the water runs empty, the sensor will fail to notice that the car is overheating as there is no water left for it to judge the temperature. So it is plausible that the pump has blown, or perhaps an old hose has expanded and the water has rapidly drained and the sensor has failed to recognise that it had emptied.

And that is why I'm a bit iffy that the timing belt has gone, the fact that it then began to run normally when RACV showed up. Perhaps it has sustained damage due to the water pump going, maybe just lost a few teeth, but hasn't completely failed.

When the RACV showed up, we filled up the water, and there were no leaks. The water is now still holding, so like I said, you would assume that it is either the pump, or perhaps an old hose has expanded allowing the water to escape and once it cooled, shrank to it's original size.

Surely if there was serious engine damage the car wouldn't have been running as well as it did when the RACV gave it a go?



And thank you Dstocks. Have provided a bit more reassurance. We figured that the head gasket may be gone, Darcy is going to head over tomorrow after work and I may get a lift up so we can have a bit of a look at what has gone on. Fingers crossed ey?

[Shane001]

The water pump won't have blown, it may be leaking but it's not going to gush out from a leaking water pump.

Fill it with water and let it idle until it's hot then check for leaks. Let it cool and recheck the water level.

[payaya]

The water pump won't have blown, it may be leaking but it's not going to gush out from a leaking water pump.

Fill it with water and let it idle until it's hot then check for leaks. Let it cool and recheck the water level.

When my water pump went the coolant was gushing out of it. Let me say after a 5 minute drive, the coolant was low enough to cause the temp meter go to just below the HOT mark.

If you are unable to keep the revs up and it just dies without warning check your air flow connector is not loose.

I would also fill with water and see if the water is leaking from the the timing belt side or battery side. If its leaking from the timing belt side it's most likely your water pump!

[payaya]

Its not the timing belt. If that had snapped, you would not be able to start the car at all. There would be valves in pistons and the universe would have imploded. If the water pump has gone, the engine would have overheated (possibly), but there would still be water in the radiator. If this was bad enough, you may have blown a head gasket, but then there would be water in the oil. You need to pressure test the radiator. Probably one of the hoses has a split in it or you have a leak in the radiator.

Nah there is a weep hole in the waterpump that drains your system as well as it's running.

[Shane001]

When my water pump went the coolant was gushing out of it.

Well there you go, our water pumps do gush

Reminds me of a documentary on SBS the other night on female ejaculation

But yeah if the water pump has / is failing if you fill the radiator and run it for a few minutes and/or until hot you should be able to see it leaking, but if it's still running the timing belt won't have failed. If it is the water pump though it's highly recommended to put a new belt on when you change it anyway.

[payaya]

The weep hole is temperamental. Sometimes it gushes sometimes not. Mine took 2 weeks from it to go from a drip to a gush!

I can't see the timing belt failing due to a water pump failure on the FTO as your car will overheat way before that.

[Bennoz]

Yeah the wreck I bough had a gusher

[Supplanter]

Yeah the wreck I bough had a gusher

Is that why you put a ring on it?

*ducks*

[Taz]

Yeah the wreck I bough had a gusher

Is that why you put a ring on it?

*ducks*

Best call I've heard in a looong time lmfao.

[Kustom]

You said your car was low on oil when it was warm but full when it was cool. When you first filled it up was it cold or warm? Cause your supposed to check it when its warm.

[klyfe]

You said your car was low on oil when it was warm but full when it was cool. When you first filled it up was it cold or warm? Cause your supposed to check it when its warm.

-_- I'm not hopeless despite popular belief

The oil was replaced when I changed the oil filter so it had to be run in anyway, meaning that the oil was rechecked when the car was warm.

It was obviously low as the oil was still finding its way back to the reservoir, I just wasn't sure if it should be taking that long to drain.

I did however today remember that the RACV dude rechecked the oil AFTER he had decided to have a bit of fun and rev the crap out of it (freakin loser, didn't check any levels or ask questions to find out if there was any potential damage to the engine, just turned it on and revved it's guts out), so it may have drained back into the reservoir at a reasonable pace and his revving pushed it back through the engine.

As it had been a good hour and a half between me checking the oil level when I first pulled up and when RACV arrived I was worried that it was not draining properly, but as I said I have since remembered that he checked it after he had had it running, so not so worried where that is concerned.

Our mate had a look at it and it is just the water pump at this stage. Going to put on a new timing kit while we are at it, and then we shall see whether or not the head gasket is gone. There are bubbles rising in the radiator, however it is possible that it is just air coming in from the water pump as it drains, so fingers crossed that the head gasket is fine.

[payaya]

You said your car was low on oil when it was warm but full when it was cool. When you first filled it up was it cold or warm? Cause your supposed to check it when its warm.

Doesn't matter when you check it.

[payaya]

You said your car was low on oil when it was warm but full when it was cool. When you first filled it up was it cold or warm? Cause your supposed to check it when its warm.

-_- I'm not hopeless despite popular belief

The oil was replaced when I changed the oil filter so it had to be run in anyway, meaning that the oil was rechecked when the car was warm.

It was obviously low as the oil was still finding its way back to the reservoir, I just wasn't sure if it should be taking that long to drain.

I did however today remember that the RACV dude rechecked the oil AFTER he had decided to have a bit of fun and rev the crap out of it (freakin loser, didn't check any levels or ask questions to find out if there was any potential damage to the engine, just turned it on and revved it's guts out), so it may have drained back into the reservoir at a reasonable pace and his revving pushed it back through the engine.

As it had been a good hour and a half between me checking the oil level when I first pulled up and when RACV arrived I was worried that it was not draining properly, but as I said I have since remembered that he checked it after he had had it running, so not so worried where that is concerned.

Our mate had a look at it and it is just the water pump at this stage. Going to put on a new timing kit while we are at it, and then we shall see whether or not the head gasket is gone. There are bubbles rising in the radiator, however it is possible that it is just air coming in from the water pump as it drains, so fingers crossed that the head gasket is fine.

Just a waterpump? The waterpump is a bastard to get to. I reckon a mechanic will charge 6-8 hours at $100 an hour to do that. If you are ripping the timing gear off you might as well change the head gaskets as the timing gear has to come off anyway.

That's if the head gasket is bad, which is rare on an FTO.

[payaya]

Yeah the wreck I bough had a gusher

Mine started gushing at maccas drive through and I was just wearing underwear and no shoes!!! Lucky they were black.

[klyfe]

You said your car was low on oil when it was warm but full when it was cool. When you first filled it up was it cold or warm? Cause your supposed to check it when its warm.

Doesn't matter when you check it.

When filling the oil, it should be at maximum when cool. The level will then obviously go down when the car is warm and the oil is still in the engine. However, like I said I did recheck the oil after we had had the car running for a few minutes to push oil through the new filter and it hadn't gone down anywhere near as much as it did when it broke down. I can only put this down to the fact that the car was overheated therefore it was using more oil in an effort to cool down. It has all drained back now though and is still clean, so the oil is of no issue.






And yep, just the blasted water pump.

That is true, however I am already struggling to afford to fix the current issues, cannot afford to be doing the head gasket as well, so really do just have to wait and see unfortunately.

[payaya]

Nah mate, you can check oil levels almost instantly even when the engines hot! The oil does not need much time to drain! Does not use more oil when hot.

That won't be causing your stalling issues anyway so look elsewhere.

Yep waterpump and timing belt change, be prepared to be screwed for labor.

Parts alone is $400-$500 retail! I did my waterpump recently and I was thinking lucky I am doing it myself as it's a bit of an anal rape on your wallet imo.

[Shane001]

Yeah but it can be a c**t of a job, and time consuming. Still easy enough to do yourself if you are mechanically minded and thorough. There are a few threads on here that cover it, but a few tips with the timing belt;

Before you take the old one off, with it at TDC, get a white paint texta or some liquid paper and mark the belt where all the cam pulley markings are and a point on the crank pulley (mark the belt and the pulley as from memory the timing mark for the pulley is above it where there is no belt to mark). Then when you take it off mark the new belt from the old belt. As long as no one touches the crank in the meantime you can then put the new belt back on just using these marks.

Get some 1 to 2 cm wide paper clamps to hold the new belt on the cam pulleys so they stay in place while you're putting it on. The f**kers will have opposing spring tension on them.

And read the manual twice before starting

Also if there is any sign of oil in the water or water in the oil you will need to do the head gasket, otherwise yeah if budget doesn't permit I'd risk it, just keep an eye on it.