what is up with my fto? :(

Asho · Post by **Asho** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:57 pm

Hi Guys,

My 95 Gpx is giving me some trouble.
I was driving at approx 100km the other night and the engine seemed to die momentarily and then restarted with a loud ticking noise that got worse as the revs rose. Mechanic went over it and took off the timing belt cover and said that just by a quick look rear (right bank) cams appeared to be 1 tooth out retarded. Any ideas? Could it of jumped a cog and be causing any possible damage? It also makes a horrible noise when you first start it like valve train noise. Has anyone every had anything similar?

cheers!

yannino · Post by **yannino** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:40 am

well i can almost immediately say you should try get urself a new starter motor (if the problem is what i think it is when you start the car) tell me more details and ill be able to pinpoint that closer.

theres a good chance your timing belt is also fucked.

best thing to do if possible is dont drive until you can find a mechanic who can pinpoint your problem and repair.

Asho · Post by **Asho** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:38 pm

The timing belt got changed a couple of thousand kms ago when the whole top end got rebuilt. The engine starts easy but settles into a clicky clacky noise from the back bank closest to the firewall.

Post by **dstocks** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:55 pm

OK,

The timing belt has a tensioner on it. Quite often, the tensioner is replaced when the timing belt is replaced. When I got mine Version R from Japan, I drove it for a couple of thousand KMS. Took the top cover off one day and didnt realise it, but the belt jumped about 12 cogs and then wouldnt start (for obvious reasons). In the end, found out that whoever the mechanic was that did the timing belt last in Japan had forgot to remove the tensioner pin. Now on most cars, this would cause the belt to slip straight away. But not with mine (and maybe not with yours). The noise you could be hearing is valves bouncing off things (really bad). Dont mean to alarm you, but if the belt is out, DO NOT START IT. You will write off the engine. Get it checked out now!

Post by **I8A4RE** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:24 am

Totally agree with dstocks, unfortunatly these are interference engines and you can cause major problems.

DO NOT START IT.

I would bbe taking it back to the mechanic that did the rebuild, IT IS UNDER WARRANTY.

And completely agree that it could be the auto tensioner pin.

col2560 · Post by **col2560** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:40 am

i had a similar problem with my bmw. was 1 tooth out and pistons were hitting the valves. it didn't cause any damage, but you could see on the piston where it was hitting. DON"T START OR DRIVE IT !!!

Asho · Post by **Asho** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:15 am

If timing belt has slipped why is noise confined to only one bank? I s one tooth retarded be enough to cause valve to piston hitting.Could it be an excessively loose rocker adjuster?Ever since Ive had this car its never really revved right out and would have trouble going above 7200-7300.My dad always felt something was not quite right with this engine.Maybe cam phasing?How are valve clearances adjuusted?Shims?My dads mechanic mate is coming out on sunday to make sure timiing is correct before starting up again.What would we look for if belts position is correct?
Thanks heaps

col2560 · Post by **col2560** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:49 am

there must be timing marks on the pulleys somewhere.
and yes, 1 tooth out can cause a piston to hit a valve. remember that the exhaust valve doesn't close untill T.D.C, so its still open as the piston comes up on the exhause stroke. also, the belt could jump on just 1 bank as they have individual pulleys on each cam.

Post by **Bennoz** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:30 am

The are marks on each cam pulley. They have to line up with corresponding marks on the rocker covers:

Asho · Post by **Asho** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:35 pm

Still confused about engine noise.Dad,s mechanic mate came out today and checked belt timing was fairly spot on with marks 1/2 cog off timing marks.He then started it knowing no piston to valve contact.Engine started easily with good flat idle and running on all 6 cylinders.Idle was 1500rpm on start up and only dropped to 1100-1200 rpm(bit high?)On revving slightly the engine got noisier.Mechanic said it almost sound like piston is kissing head.If this is possible would idle be so flat.could conrod bolt have loosened and allowed piston to hit head or tap valves?Mechanic then took off intake and rocker cover to check excessive lash.One rocker was quite noisey ,sounded very much like slower engine noise and similar area,but when checked clearance was pretty close with some valves maybe a bit tight if anything.Can the valve seat inserts come adrift as I,m wondering if heads had full rebuilds something has come adrift.What would be my next move?Also where could we get proper plug tool and valve lash adjuster tool?
Can damaged rockers still exhibit excessive noise even with in spec lash?
Thanks again
Asho

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:33 pm

Two things srping to mind here.

1. If a conrod bolt had loosened enough to allow movement your mechanic, and anybody else you drove by, would have heard it and know about it!

2. it sounds like you have trouble with the MIVEC operating solenoid to me. If it comes on just a little bit then you will get a loud noise as the cams fail to engage properly. This can happen with just one beank and could explain the flattnes you have at higher revs as well as the noise.

IIRC you can check the solenoid by putting 12v over it and see if it clicks into place.

HTH

Bill

Asho · Post by **Asho** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:22 pm

Hi Bill
Will this noise show up even just off idle or does it have to get into Mivec range?Is the noise actually doing damage?Will the noise increase with revs?Do they often give trouble if so how much to replace?Could it be wiring fault,power,earth?
Thanks for help,Asho

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:43 pm

First things first, I'd check error codes:

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... ic&t=14667

If nothing there, I'd check what condition your sump oil is. If there's 'bits' in it, I'd reckon you've spun a big end.

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:07 pm

sounds like broken piston ring.

is there a loss of power after the engine warms up and your revving it????

Asho · Post by **Asho** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm

Haven,t really revved and driven it more than 2500-3000 to limp it home about 2kms.Engine runs nice and flat on all cylinders and good even beat out of tailpipes with not a hint of smoke.Oil pressure light didn,t come on .Is there anything metal that can be dislodged in the intake manifold that could be flying around above piston?I will drain engine oil and check for metal.
Asho

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:53 pm

just a thought, maybe youve lost a screw cap for the mivec cams and its rattling round...

if it was a slipped belt (or cog) youd know about it cause your motor would have definatly gone....

its not a big end if the car is running on all 6... you just wouldnt start it... its like the force... youd just know its fooked...

maybe youve dropped a valve and the springs slapping around...

who knows...

keep us informed... its an interesting one

mhpautos · Post by **mhpautos** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:56 pm

Fault is a spun bearing No 1 big end.

Mark (mhpautos)

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:06 pm

Asho wrote: Hi Bill
Will this noise show up even just off idle or does it have to get into Mivec range?Is the noise actually doing damage?Will the noise increase with revs?Do they often give trouble if so how much to replace?Could it be wiring fault,power,earth?
Thanks for help,Asho

If the solenoid to open the MIVEC cams is fubarred then it could leak enough pressure in to partially engage the cam, this however usually makes your car sound like a tractor so I am fairly sure it aint this.

Another thought is that there actually is a hydraulic tappet which activates the MIVEC system. If the one on the rear bank is fubarred then it could be causing the noise and stopping effective MIVEC process, giving you a reduction in power at the top end.

Just a couple of thoughts but an error code check should really be your frst port of call as it can rule out a fair few things for you.

HTH

Bill

Post by **I8A4RE** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 am

This is your problem

The timing belt got changed a couple of thousand kms ago when the whole top end got rebuilt. The engine starts easy but settles into a clicky clacky noise from the back bank closest to the firewall.

They have fucked something up.......Take it back to them to fix

Post by **Bennoz** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:51 am

Did no one read this?

mhpautos wrote:Fault is a spun bearing No 1 big end.

Mark (mhpautos)

FTO AUSTRALIA

what is up with my fto? :(

what is up with my fto? :(

Engine noise.

Re: Engine noise.