Idle drop with aircon on - stepper motor???

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:41 pm

Hiya,

This is my first post here, and I'm hoping for some help on a problem I'm having.

I have just bought a '95 auto GPX in Cairns from a dealer. It comes with a one month dealer warranty, and I got a standard 6 month extension. It is still within the one month warranty so everything should be covered by the dealer.

With the aircon off, the idle speed will sit at about 900 which I understand to be correct. There are no problems that I have seen (so far). The problem arises once I turn on the a/c at which point the idle speed drops and then bounces up to where it should be before dropping again. This will continue indefinately, sometimes to the point that it will drop so low that the engine will cut out/stall.

Now as I've said, it is under warranty, so I am a little aprehensive about doing anything myself, however I'm more than happy to keep returning it to the dealer until the problem is rectified. That said, I'm not sure how much they know about the car, so any pointers would be much appreciated. FWIW the dealers have been happy to take it back for repair (3 times so far), so are keeping in line with the warranty, however don't seem to be able to fix it.

My first thought was that it might be a stepper motor problem, however from what I have read if it were a stepper motor issue it should resolve itself when warmed up - this is not the case. Other than that (and I hate to think it), but it may be an ECU issue.

Either way, has anyone experienced a similar issue with their car, and can they shed any light on what might be the culprit?

Your help would be much appreciated, as I'd like to get it sorted and drivable asap. BTW, I live in Far North Queensland, so the idea or driving without a/c isn't very appealing.

Regards,

Andy

Edit: I should note that the last time they had it back, they cleaned the stepper motor. This didn't resolve the problem.

RallyMad · Post by **RallyMad** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:10 pm

It still sounds like stepper motor to me mate.

Mine does a similar thing but doesn't cut out or stall, so not to your level. An Auto electracian has been over my car, no errrors, no other problems so they say it's either the stepper motor or ECU, haven't changed the stepper motor yet but I'd say start there.

Good luck mate. I used to live in Rocky so understand the heat and remoteness from most of everyone else on here.

I think this is more a sign of the stepper motor starting to go. When they go completely you can't even let it idle at the lights without revving them. I think mine is stepper because when I remove the battery connection (just take off the negative) for more than 30 minutes (this resets all the sensors etc) I'll have stalling issues and idle issues for a few weeks. The auto lecy couldn't source this problem but did tell me that the when the air-con was kicking in and the car was put in gear the revs where not adjusting which they have said is either stepper motor or a stuffed ECU. I'm thinking stepper as I have no other problems and as I said it does the classic stepper thing when I reset the sensors.

I'd start by doing this yourself mate, could at least promp you to get a new stepper under the warranty when you take it back and it's not idleing. I've tried to clean mine but I think once they pass it they are just gone.
If you don't want to do the ECU error check thing with the grounding of the wire I'd be taking it to the yard and requesting they send it to a auto-lecy with a MUT III. Thats the Mitsi computer error checking software, I've found an autolecy down here has one that talks to my car and charges bugger all to plug it up so you might be just as lucky. Maybe even go and have a chat to some around town first and then ask your yard to send the car to them for the warranty care.

Anyway mate when you get it sorted I'm sure you'll love it just as much as the rest of us do and WTTC. I might see you up there one day, my sister lives in Cairns.

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:19 pm

Thanks mate,

And thank you for the info on the requirements to check the ECU. I used to have a GR facelift manual back in the UK, however I wasn't allowed to bring it over with me. I sold it, and bought myself a WRX, but it just never felt as 'good' as the FTO, so I sold it and bought myself the MIVEC.

I'll let you know the outcome.

Andy

RallyMad · Post by **RallyMad** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:52 pm

Oaky mate, here is a link to how to check the ECU error codes yourself if you can't find a place up there with the right machine to talk to a FTO.

http://www.ftowa.com/html/workshop/workshopart07.html

You'll notice from that link that I stuffed up, it's a MUT II not MUT III that you'll need for an auto lecy to read your a GPX. They need special software though so just cause they have a MUT II doesn't mean they will be able to help you. I think I just got lucky. Or people are buying the Japanese software for their machines as Mitsubishi is going the way of imports only.

Glad to see you stepping back into a FTO then Andy, I'm sure you'll love it especially with how rare they are up there. There used to be another Cairns member on the forum but I haven't seen him on here for a long time.

Not a problem mate, I'll be interested to see how you get on, I'll also pass on what I figure out with my issues.

Garth

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:57 pm

It will be either your stepper or wiring.

Take the stepper out give it a clean before anything.

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:58 am

Thank you.

I believe/have been told that they have already cleaned the stepper motor.

I did notice last night that the revs jumped for some reason, and rather than dropping off like they usually do, it was idling (in Park) at around the 2,300 mark.

Does this fall in line with a stepper issue, or does this flag it as possibly something else?

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:54 pm

As an update to the above, I've noticed that more than likely what they have done to 'fix' the problem is to just manually adjust the idle speed up to about 2,300 with the a/c off while in park, so when the a/c is on it will idle at around the 900 mark.

Anyway, it's back in on Monday for 'as long as it takes', and like I say, the dealers have been more than helpful with the whole thing, giving me a loan car while mine is in the shop.

Fingers crossed this time they'll replace the stepper and that'll be the cause of my issues. Then I can start playing...

Got mags I'm not too keen on, and sports exhaust which just doesn't really have the note I'd like, but it does have KYB Buzz Spec suspension, a Veilside Combat Wing 'style' back wing that is adjustable, and a space just waiting to be filled with an induction kit

zuihoujueding · Post by **zuihoujueding** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:01 am

Hi mate, just curious on my part. Other than felt as 'good',
what you dont like about the WRX? and choose it over FTO?

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:08 am

1. I didn't like the fact that you had to wait before you turned the engine off to let the turbo cool off (and if you fitted a turbo timer then it invalidated the warranty and insurance as it messed with the 6 point imobilizer (or so I was told by the dealer)

2. Most of the roads around Cairns where I live are 60 limits, and you can't sit in 5th in the 60 and have any hopes of pulling away - you basically neede to drive it in 4th

3. Low down torque seemed non-existant (compared to my old FTO). It felt to me (personal opinion) that they had put a sh!t motor in it and made it better by adding on a turbo.

4. The interior in the '99 WRX looks way more dated than the '95 FTO.

5. If the battery goes flat (like it did to me when I went on holiday for a month), and you don't recharge or replace within a couple of hours, the immobilizer locks out, and you need to get the car towed to a Subaru dealership and pay to have the pin reset. Oh, you have to pay for the cost of the tow too, obviously.

Obviously these are just my personal opinions. I know there are lots of people out there that love the WRX. It's just not for me.

zuihoujueding · Post by **zuihoujueding** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:15 am

kizl wrote:1. I didn't like the fact that you had to wait before you turned the engine off to let the turbo cool off (and if you fitted a turbo timer then it invalidated the warranty and insurance as it messed with the 6 point imobilizer (or so I was told by the dealer)

2. Most of the roads around Cairns where I live are 60 limits, and you can't sit in 5th in the 60 and have any hopes of pulling away - you basically neede to drive it in 4th

3. Low down torque seemed non-existant (compared to my old FTO). It felt to me (personal opinion) that they had put a sh!t motor in it and made it better by adding on a turbo.

4. The interior in the '99 WRX looks way more dated than the '95 FTO.

5. If the battery goes flat (like it did to me when I went on holiday for a month), and you don't recharge or replace within a couple of hours, the immobilizer locks out, and you need to get the car towed to a Subaru dealership and pay to have the pin reset. Oh, you have to pay for the cost of the tow too, obviously.

Obviously these are just my personal opinions. I know there are lots of people out there that love the WRX. It's just not for me.

Mate, your reasons makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the feedback!

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:35 am

kizl wrote:
2. Most of the roads around Cairns where I live are 60 limits, and you can't sit in 5th in the 60 and have any hopes of pulling away - you basically neede to drive it in 4th

How about shift into 4th when you need to accelerate?

If I can do it in my sisters fiesta you should not have had any dramas in a wrx!

Also your rigth about the head in Cairns. Was up there at the beginning of the year and it was so so hot it was unbearable.

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:39 am

Sorry - bad explanation. in 5th, at around the 55-60kmph mark, if you put your foot down it sits there and chugs. Kinda of like pulling away from the lights in third gear in your sisters fiesta

BTW my first car was an '84 fiesta. I loved it! Till the gearbox fell out...

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:23 am

Haha ok so you wish for a closer ratio box with shorter top gear? Then you'l start crying about the high fuel consumption at higher speeds.

Top gear is not a gear for accelerating its geared to be essentially an overdrive gear. Use it to cruise!

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:38 am

Ok, so as an update, the garage still has my car. They have tried replacing the stepper and it still has the same issue. They are now thinking that it is the ECU. I'm just happy that it's all covered under the 30 day warranty and I have a curtosy car to keep me going!

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:05 am

could be the wiring as well.

kizl · Post by **kizl** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:40 am

Thank you - i'll let them know.

da_msta_chizz · Post by **da_msta_chizz** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:20 pm

If the wiring doesn't fix it..
Power FC

(BTW, with your WRX, i would have just switched it straight off after every drive. when the turbo dies (as my brothers did), they HAVE to replace it under warranty, because subaru were too stupid/cheap to spend $200~ on a part to save themselves like $3k each turbo.)

FknTopOne · Post by **FknTopOne** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:19 pm

When I first got mine I had the same problem. Also under warranty. Think it was something to do with an idle solanoid? but that's really testing my memory for both the problem and terminology. Hopefully someone else here can confirm or dismiss this, or knows w.t.f. i'm talking 'bout? I remember they tried to pass it off as the stepper motor, but however much they f'ed around with that, it never fixed the problem. In the end it was either a replaced solanoid or wiring issue that fixed it