FTO only revs to 6500 rpm

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:36 pm

Hi everyone,

I am looking to buy an FTO and found a GPX in excellent condition. I would have bought it already if it weren't for one thing: it only revs to 6500 rpm even when warm before the rev limiter kicks in. Now, I have read that the problem could be with the alternator or fuel quality. The seller admitted to only putting in premium (95 octane) the last time he filled up and used premium from time to time. Most of the time he used 98 octane (seemed pretty honest). I could also hear some knocking while test driving the car. I'm about to send a mechanic to get the car fully checked, but I would like to hear some opinions from FTO experts before I spend money on that. Would appreciate any thoughts.

Cheers,
Alex.

harry90 · Post by **harry90** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:53 pm

98 octane is the best by bp isnt it ? isnt that bp ultimate ?

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:03 pm

harry90 wrote:98 octane is the best by bp isnt it ? isnt that bp ultimate ?

Yes it is. It's the one the seller used most of the time (shell sometimes as well). Sometimes he used premium (95 octane), though.

Alex.

harry90 · Post by **harry90** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:06 pm

thats a relief...cos i started using 98 octane recently after giving up on v-power....and i kinda got scared when i thought you were saying 98 octane is not bp ultimate...

Post by **aza013** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:10 pm

harry90 wrote:thats a relief...cos i started using 98 octane recently after giving up on v-power....and i kinda got scared when i thought you were saying 98 octane is not bp ultimate...

both the v power shell and bp ultimate come out of the same fuel depo in sydney and the depo is shell. so there sound not be any diference between the two

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:20 pm

harry90 wrote:thats a relief...cos i started using 98 octane recently after giving up on v-power....and i kinda got scared when i thought you were saying 98 octane is not bp ultimate...

Lol, it can get confusing with all the petrol marketing babble. At least you got nothing to worry about.

Alex.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Dude i cant remeber exactly what the cause was but i definitly remember reading about some other person on here with the same problem a while back. As i recall it definitly wasnt fuel. The type of fuel shouldnt effect what the vehicle revs to in any car (now thats my opinion not fact). try doing a search on here, i will have a look for you to but sounds extremely suspect to me, either the seller is lying or doesnt know what the hell they are talking about

Heres one

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... 500#119210

Heres another

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... 500#122251

And another

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... 6500#62738

After reading a few without going too in-depth, it could quite possibly be the alternator but no one has replied to say that fixing that will fix the problem

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:42 pm

I8AFRE wrote:Dude i cant remeber exactly what the cause was but i definitly remember reading about some other person on here with the same problem a while back. As i recall it definitly wasnt fuel. The type of fuel shouldnt effect what the vehicle revs to in any car (now thats my opinion not fact). try doing a search on here, i will have a look for you to but sounds extremely suspect to me, either the seller is lying or doesnt know what the hell they are talking about

Heres one

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... 500#119210

Heres another

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... 500#122251

And another

http://www.ftoaustralia.com/modules.php ... 6500#62738

After reading a few without going too in-depth, it could quite possibly be the alternator but no one has replied to say that fixing that will fix the problem

Hi I8AFRE, thanks for the links... I hadn't seen those even though I did do a few searches. The reason I thought it could be the fuel quality is because I read somewhere that the ECU will limit the revs to 6500 rpm when the knock sensor detects knocking (which happens with inferior petrol) to protect the engine. As per those threads, it could be a number of other things unfortunately and I don't think the owner will let me read out the ECU error codes using the wire trick.

Cheers,
Alex.

mr-charisma · Post by **mr-charisma** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:09 am

Theres a few things that it could be

1.) Alternator - FR Terminal .. basically the Alternator is not sending the proper signal back to the ECU - So the car restricts itself from entering MIVEC - This is what was wrong with my car
I just replaced my alternator with a new one around $250-300 + around $250-350 in labour i think.
2.) Air Intake Control valve position sensor - This is a little sensor that sits on the passenger side of the intake manifold - controls when / how the butterflies in the intake manifold open / close so if its faulty, MIVEC won't work (This was also a problem in my car)
Easy to fix - I'll have to do up a DIY Guide cause the one on the FTOOC.org site is no longer available
Costs: Around $90-100 for the replacement sensor + labour if you don't want to do it yourself

3.) Knock or 'Detonation' Sensor - I believe that this is located in the centre of the engine block or something - costs a few hundred for a mechanic to test & fix this - from memory one for the QLD Crew paid about $400-500 at Joe & Ricks

4.) Solenoids - The solenoids can become stuck & stop working correctly - from memory its related to the alternator functions? - Easy to fix & one of the first things to diagnose .. should cost around $30-50 or so

5.) Someone might correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I think that it can happen if you're having trouble with speed sensors / torque converter / throttle position sensor etc .. anything that will put your car into Limp Mode..
Costs for any one of these can vary... check the forums for pricing etc etc

Causes 1-4 are the most common .. but there might be more than what I've listed above ..

best way to find out the cause of the problem is to extract the ECU codes;

http://www.ftowa.com/html/workshop/workshopart07.html

Once you have the codes, post up a new topic & we'll be able to help out with letting you know what to do / how much to fix etc..

mr-charisma · Post by **mr-charisma** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:19 am

It wouldn't have anything to do with hthe type of fuel used in the car ..
But 98 octane is useless while the cars revs are restricted or the car is in limp mode - apparently it doesn't use the fuel to its full potential, so you might as well be using regular unleaded..

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:29 am

mr-charisma wrote:Theres a few things that it could be

1.) Alternator - FR Terminal .. basically the Alternator is not sending the proper signal back to the ECU - So the car restricts itself from entering MIVEC - This is what was wrong with my car
I just replaced my alternator with a new one around $250-300 + around $250-350 in labour i think.
2.) Air Intake Control valve position sensor - This is a little sensor that sits on the passenger side of the intake manifold - controls when / how the butterflies in the intake manifold open / close so if its faulty, MIVEC won't work (This was also a problem in my car)
Easy to fix - I'll have to do up a DIY Guide cause the one on the FTOOC.org site is no longer available
Costs: Around $90-100 for the replacement sensor + labour if you don't want to do it yourself

3.) Knock or 'Detonation' Sensor - I believe that this is located in the centre of the engine block or something - costs a few hundred for a mechanic to test & fix this - from memory one for the QLD Crew paid about $400-500 at Joe & Ricks

4.) Solenoids - The solenoids can become stuck & stop working correctly - from memory its related to the alternator functions? - Easy to fix & one of the first things to diagnose .. should cost around $30-50 or so

5.) Someone might correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I think that it can happen if you're having trouble with speed sensors / torque converter / throttle position sensor etc .. anything that will put your car into Limp Mode..
Costs for any one of these can vary... check the forums for pricing etc etc

Causes 1-4 are the most common .. but there might be more than what I've listed above ..

best way to find out the cause of the problem is to extract the ECU codes;

http://www.ftowa.com/html/workshop/workshopart07.html

Once you have the codes, post up a new topic & we'll be able to help out with letting you know what to do / how much to fix etc..

Thanks for your help mate. That's a great overview. The problem I have is that I do not own the car and cannot read the ECU codes. I think I'll get a mechanical check regardless and if there is something major wrong with the engine, it should come up. All the things you listed are rather cheap to fix in comparison and I can probably get the price down a bit too.

It wouldn't have anything to do with hthe type of fuel used in the car ..
But 98 octane is useless while the cars revs are restricted or the car is in limp mode - apparently it doesn't use the fuel to its full potential, so you might as well be using regular unleaded..

Well, that's good to hear because the seller didn't even know the car was supposed to rev higher than that. He always shifted before 6000 rpm MAX (I was in the car with him driving). So even if he used inferior fuel, it sounds like the car should be alright.

Cheers,
Alex.

harry90 · Post by **harry90** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:06 am

are you saying in normal day-to-day driving, the seller shifts at 6000rpm ? ummm....

i dunno....im sure if theres something wrong with that someone will back me up...

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:54 am

harry90 wrote:are you saying in normal day-to-day driving, the seller shifts at 6000rpm ? ummm.... i dunno....im sure if theres something wrong with that someone will back me up...

Nah. On the second test drive I asked him to come along and see for himself whats wrong, but he was hesitant to even go to 6000 rpm and was afraid hed break the engine. He's an older gentleman (by older i mean not ~20) with kids and seems to be a reasonable driver. So what I was trying to say is that in the worst case he would never rev over ~5500, which is why he never noticed a problem. It probably also means he never felt MIVEC kick in, which is a shame.

I will get a check up done by Sydney Vehicles Check very soon. Any major problems should come up I reckon. If anyone has any further thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them, though. My other option is to import the car directly, which takes a bit long though.

Alex.

mr-charisma · Post by **mr-charisma** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:26 pm

harry90 wrote:are you saying in normal day-to-day driving, the seller shifts at 6000rpm ? ummm.... i dunno....im sure if theres something wrong with that someone will back me up...

I drove my car like that for over a year with no issues .. as long as I shifted before 6k RPM it was fine, it just mean that I babied the car ..after I got it fixed though, its been full throttle MIVEC all the way ... I have to assume that nearly redlining it all the time would have to do more damage than going almost to 6k & changing gears..

And to vendall;
IF you can get the guy to lower his price to account for the cost in fixing the problem, just take it at worst case scenario - that it could be the Knock/Detonation sensor or something & get him to drop his price by at least $600-800 if you can..
Otherwise, get the ECU Diagnostic codes when you get a mechanical check done on it .. if he lets you get them yourself then that would be tops .. He ought to give you a crack at it unless he really has something to hide.. in which case .. if you're not getting it at a bargain basement price - I'd just walk away & find one that doesn't have any issues..

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:09 pm

mr-charisma wrote:
harry90 wrote:are you saying in normal day-to-day driving, the seller shifts at 6000rpm ? ummm.... i dunno....im sure if theres something wrong with that someone will back me up...
I drove my car like that for over a year with no issues .. as long as I shifted before 6k RPM it was fine, it just mean that I babied the car ..after I got it fixed though, its been full throttle MIVEC all the way ... I have to assume that nearly redlining it all the time would have to do more damage than going almost to 6k & changing gears..

And to vendall;
IF you can get the guy to lower his price to account for the cost in fixing the problem, just take it at worst case scenario - that it could be the Knock/Detonation sensor or something & get him to drop his price by at least $600-800 if you can..
Otherwise, get the ECU Diagnostic codes when you get a mechanical check done on it .. if he lets you get them yourself then that would be tops .. He ought to give you a crack at it unless he really has something to hide.. in which case .. if you're not getting it at a bargain basement price - I'd just walk away & find one that doesn't have any issues..

Thanks for the sound advice mr-charisma. I'll get the mechanic to check all over (this is a 90 min check up and I'll make sure to ask the mechanic if he can get the error codes for me). If the car is in top condition otherwise, I'll suggest a price at about a grand less to account for the problem and see how I go. The car is already priced very well, too.

Regarding reving to 6000 rpm. I don't see why this should be a problem for these rev happy engines as long as its warm. It's not pushing any limits. Wouldn't be good for fuel economy though.

Thanks again,
Alex.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:11 pm

No reving to and past 6000rpm is fine the engine loves it, but i think harry thought that you meant that the seller was reving it to 6000rpm every gear change, every time. Meaning that is a crazy way to drive cause as you said fuel economy would be out the window. I just think he might of mis read what you wrote he wasnt saying that you should never rev them to 6000

Post by **I8A4RE** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:13 pm

Oh and Vendall if you do buy this car and fix the problem can you please post up what fixed it so that other ppl dont have to keep posting the same thing

Thanks

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:40 pm

I8AFRE wrote:No reving to and past 6000rpm is fine the engine loves it, but i think harry thought that you meant that the seller was reving it to 6000rpm every gear change, every time. Meaning that is a crazy way to drive cause as you said fuel economy would be out the window. I just think he might of mis read what you wrote he wasnt saying that you should never rev them to 6000

Ah I see what you mean. Agreed.

I8AFRE wrote:Oh and Vendall if you do buy this car and fix the problem can you please post up what fixed it so that other ppl dont have to keep posting the same thing

Thanks

Absolutely. Booked in the inspection for Wednesday. I will let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks for all your help

vendall · Post by **vendall** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:14 pm

Quick update guys.

I had the car checked and other than a few minor rust areas under the car, she's in good shape. I bought the car and I'm very happy with how she drives and handles (even though I cannot go above 6500rpm). I read out the ECU error code and it turns out got be 64 which means there's something off with the alternator. Unplugged, cleaned and reconnected the 4 pin connector, which didn't help. So the next step is to remove the alternator and get it reconditioned.

I will let you guys know how it goes.

Cheers,
Alex.

cb · Post by cb » Wed May 28, 2008 7:21 pm

I know this is a few months old but how did you go with fixing the revs?