Aloy block for 6a12 Mivec engine!!!

droidy · Post by **droidy** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:43 am

maybe you can make an engine block out of carbon fibre?

droidy · Post by **droidy** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:51 am

maybe I could get a goverrnment subsidy too- due to lighter weight, less emmissions and use less fuel. Comon Mr Howard, make a contribution too drag racing- I mean the environment

Seriously though, with the cost of fuel these days, the cost of producing an alloy block will cancel itself out over the life of the vehichle, I think. Plus it's good to think of doing something good for the environment- maybe contributing 2 ton less co2 per year to our atmosphere. Ofcourse, all these theories might go out the window hitting Mivec all the time haha. Well I'm going to go talk to some engineer shops and find out about these, 5 axis cnc machines. Hopefuly not too expensive

haha

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:19 pm

Actually I only mentioned RB26 because so many people are familiar with it. Realistically it is not that great of an engine

In fact, all it is is a CA18 with 2 extra cylinders, which bring capacity to 2.6

Droidy what makes you say that it will use so much less fuel from an alloy block?

Regardless, I don't think it is worth the money.
Think of it this way, Evo Vs STi:
Everyone knows Evo owns STi through corners
But realistically it shouldn't
The STi has so many advantages over the evo:

Flat engine (lower CG)
Engine sits lower in engine engine bay due to how it hooks to the gearbox (lower CG again)
Engine is NS so the gearbox is under the cabin. Evo box is right there in the engine bay
Evo X will have alloy block for better weight distribution for even better handling

Basically, as you can see, even with these differences Evo still better than STi. Subaru aren't building a car, they are just trying to copy Mitsubishi

droidy · Post by **droidy** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:39 pm

ha! Subaru will NEVER be as good as Mitsubishi

Yeah, I think in the case of comparing sti to evo- it's prob less about centre of gravity and more about ayc, plus the fact 4g63=killer, ej20=crap

I guess i'm more comparing putting an integra type r engine in a civic to putting like an fto version r engine setup in a lancer. Reminds me though, There was a really interesting article in the current issue of sport compact car about how Dr. Evo and the Mitsu engineers are developing the new super ayc for the x, using an evo ix. Should be an amazing car, if it doesn't look weird.
Asfar as the paying for itself, well with less weight you save money by using less fuel- less emmisions too. Over the life of the car, it would add up too a lot. But if you're reving the hell out of it too like 9000, rpm, I guess you'd be using a fair bit of fuel anyways

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:06 am

the cost of fuel is nothing when compared to the loss you take for deprecation....lets not forget the total loss u will make on all your mods as u will never get that back no matter how great your centre of gravity is your how your block is made from carbon fibre

SG · Post by SG » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:06 pm

who buys a normal car and then mods it for an investment anyway. your modding your car for fun, and funs always a "waste" of money

personally though i'm going for spetz's type of engine upgrades.. a high po n/a motor except going for torque instead of high revs if thats even posssible

i think i'd only be interested in an alloy block aswell if it was less than a few k, or i won the lotto

JOeJOe · Post by **JOeJOe** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:54 pm

Motor vehicles are not an investment object, it's only for personal pleasure. The pleasure of owning and driving a unique vehicle.

Can't really put a cost if you get enjoyment out of it. It's like spending a lot of money on a once in a lifetime holiday, would you regret spending so much money on it?

droidy · Post by **droidy** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:36 pm

haha yes I agree! It's not like money is no issue, I'm no millionaire, but I don't think about it as an investment, people say you never get the money back when you sell it- no s#*t! But I'm not thinking of selling it, I'm thinking of keeping it, and enjoying driving it! In that sense it is an investment- in my driving/engineering pleasure

I can't wait to see spetz's results too, should be amazing, probably the hardest tuned 6a12 mivec in the universe.

I'm still on the the trail of the alloy block, and will keep people posted- sofar got some good responses from engineering shops- prob cause they figure they gonna make a nice profit from it

But just gotta wait for my 2.5, then we'll see how it goes.. I think there must be abit of weight in the fto gearbox too about 35ish kg?

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:22 pm

be consistant. this is what you said mate - keep it in context.

Asfar as the paying for itself, well with less weight you save money by using less fuel- less emmisions too

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:57 pm

You can't really create torque from a small capacity NA motor

You want power, you needs revs, and plenty of them

Look at Honda's, their NA engines make good power, but at stratospheric revs

Anyway not sure how things are going with the internals. Cryoing, shot peening and molybednum coating is not a problem
BUt the stud bolts etc are. Can get custom ARP ones but they will cost a heap and need to be made in the US and then shipped here

Hopefully something can be worked out, that way sometime down the track I shall put some nice cams into it
PS. THe engine is getting dummy assembled to check everything in it to figure out the best cams to use
Maybe get peak power by 8500-9000 I would say

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:31 pm

are you loking for ARP head studs

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:49 pm

They would be good too I guess but no I am looking for the rod bolts (the ones that close the conrod onto the crankshaft)

Know anything about it?

PS to Droidy
Just been swapping batteries around
My battery weighed 15kg
Friends optima yellow top 21kg
So, anyone with a yellow top, if they just get a dry cell and put it into boot are already saving as much weight as a alloy block would from the front of the car.
See why this is such poor value for money?
I think, do all the weight relocation/reduction you can. And alloy block is a last thing to do if you think you must (ie you are trying to beat the FWD record at tsakuba or something

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:04 pm

lol

what wheels u got? change them too....most people have heavy crap cheep wheels...like me

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:48 am

Easiest way of making the FTO is to change the engine to the turbo motor. Quick and easy. Costs? More than usual but the results would be much better!

Change to alloy block, after dragging the cars, you'll probably be quarter of a car length ahead after 150k''s an hour.

Change the engine to the turbo, you'll be 4 car lengths ahead after 150km an hour.

The FTO is tuned so high already its hard to extract more power out of it.

It reminds me of touring car teams. New engine reported to be 20HP more than the engine it replaces. This is a big deal on the race track as the cars are so close. On the streets you would notice nothing.

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:51 am

The talk of alloy block is more so for better handling rather than straight line performance

I think, this should be the last thing to consider (if even considering actually)

You can easily(ish) take off about 50kg from the front of the car by moving stuff around and getting lighter weight parts too

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:00 am

spetz wrote:The talk of alloy block is more so for better handling rather than straight line performance

I think, this should be the last thing to consider (if even considering actually)

You can easily(ish) take off about 50kg from the front of the car by moving stuff around and getting lighter weight parts too

Spendin money on better tyres would be a much better option? The money you save in mot going alloy you could spend extra on tyres and this would be a way better mod?

Obviously if weight is so important to this degree obviously track work would be on the agenda? How about some semi slicks?

I would only see weight reduction in the block neccessary if you were a racer, and you already have all corners of the car finished and you needed that edge.

If you dont, then obivously you would not need such a mod!

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:03 pm

Once again I think it was only a talk of after every single other component was looked at... to gain that extra little bit

Obviously though this wont be going ahead as the price of it is astronomical... and at this stage buy an Evo or if you want FWD with amazing handling buy a Honda

Comes with alloy block standard!

droidy · Post by **droidy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:23 pm

Just an update... Well I've spoken to golden eagle engineering in California, they suggest just keeping the iron bottom end and utilising the strength of it with ultra high compression... sounds like an attractive idea... no response from dart??????
I'm still trying to source a 6a13 bottom end- at this stage it looks like it will be coming from nz. When I get it, I'll be seeing what I can do.. if it's not feasible, I'll be trying to get the compression ratio right up there instead... 15:1????

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:05 pm

just get your hands on an 8A80 mits engine, as they are already alloy.
Will be a very tight sqeaze but i wreckon it would just fit.

droidy · Post by **droidy** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:55 pm

HA! A 4.5 l v8 in a lancer????

It might fit in an fto..... have to read up on this engine..