FTO AUSTRALIA

droidy wrote:I've been trying to find more info on the 6a** series of engines- one page I found says the 'a' in 6a** refers to the block being aluminium! Then, at the bottom of the page there was a footnote that said "some of the 6a** engines had iron blocks, who know's with Mitsubishi." Some? All the 6a12 or 6a13 engines I've seen have iron blocks! But maybe, just maybe, some where over the rainbow in that majical, mystical place we like to call jdm, there are 6a13 blocks that are alloy! OMFG, I think I'm having a joygasm now

Where do you see that information?
I can have a look at it and confirm whether it is true or not.

How did MR CRX get his funding????



Ok, I really don't think you can take up alloy block making as a hobby
I mean, the clearances etc on making a block would be so tight that I am sure you need huge amounts of experience to do this!

All Mitsubishi engines were cast iron up until now where the 4G15 and 4G63 is released in alloy.
And I seriously doubt, even after what I said above, that there is an alluminium 6A series engine. Think about it, wouldn't Mitsubishi have, if at all, used an alloy block in a FTO Version R? An NA engine in a "weekend track" car where block strength is not that important, and weight distribution is? As opposed to the newer VR4s that run twin turbo and are AWD so the extra 20kg would not be a huge deal

Droidy, the bonnet doesn't weight 11kg, it weighs 15kg, and the carbon one is 4kg (5kg for fibreglass)

Was traction at all effected without having a bonnet?


Either which way, without some sort of a price tihs thread is useless!
An alloy block is very nice, but without knowing if it cost $1000 or $75,000 there is no point. Obviously for 1K it is well worth it, but for 75K maybe not


PS you can buy carbon fenders but I think there is only about 1-2kg saving from both, the original ones are light as it is
Move/remove you jet spray for the window, 3 litres of water there + enclosure = 3+ kg saving
Horns?
Move fuse box, wiring
Any unneeded brackets (couple of heavy ones holding the manifold onto the engine in the V6)

Well there was a documentary on the Abc a couple of months ago, talking about organized car crime, theft, car jackings, rebirthing etc. It might have been the 4 corners program or something like that. According to this show, Brian El Hassan (Mr Crx) was implicated in an international car theft raquet, running partly out his (I'm assuming now defunct) business in Sydney, Mc racing. Apparently they stole cars, cut them up, shipped them to the middle east, where his brother sold parts on the black market etc. etc. What a hero This is the guy who spent 80 grand on a first gen crx, 200 k on a wrx... any one who spends 10 thousand on chrome wheels and then puts them on a subaru must be questionable It makes me suspicious of all the nice evo motors and recaro seats around- where do they come from? I don't want stolen parts in my car, that's for sure.
I realise what you're sayin spetz, I started this thread to see if anyone with 6a** engines would be interested in an alloy block, I'm trying to exhaust all avenues of research, to make sure there aren't alloy engines coming out of a manufacturing plant some where in the huge Mitsubishi industrial world of south east asia. Imagine if you went to the trouble of making an alloy block, then found out it was available from the manufacturing plant in indonesia or something You'd be spewing! haha as soon as I find out- I'll be sure to post up the info!
Umm.. I'll try and find that file, I'm now reading another file that says the 'a' in 6a** refers to the aluminium heads

oh yeah, yes traction was better with no hood! I put the foot down around a corner and I could feel the tyres gripping more, and the car wanting to go go no bulls*#t! You try it spetz, you'll be out buying carbon fibre hood and dry cell boot mounted battery wire tommorow! On a closed road ofcorse
btw I have heavy ass 18" Momo wheels on my car at the mo.. so it prob be even better with you light weight rims- oh yeah and the friken mivec v6

What about initial launching traction?

Could I be so wrong to think that more weight over the front equals to better traction?

PS Corner traction is different though, of course with more weight at the front, the car wants to go straight and has a harder time changing direction

I was considering buying a CF bonnet soon but I am thinking I might go buy upgraded bushes and swaybars before the bonnet

Not to mention every time i talk to Charlie or Milton my tab for the engine rebuild keeps going up (not because they are dodgy, but I keep optioning i up damn it)

It was about two months ago I took my car to the drags. I did 15.5 sec passed before it got rained out, but I was pretty happy considering I couldnt launch at over 4000 rpm or it would break out in wheelspin! Interesting thing I learnt the other bay, I did a fuel compumption test on the mivec v6 and my car is now BETTER on fuel than with the 1.8 4 cyl! go figure?? travelled 173km on 11.5 l of fuel.

What was your 60ft time?

No offence but 15.5 is pretty poor

spetz wrote:What about initial launching traction?

Could I be so wrong to think that more weight over the front equals to better traction?

PS Corner traction is different though, of course

I think I heard only snow/ice is the surface you need less weight on to get more traction.. unless you have studs or abnormal tyres or something that grips. cos with grip + more and more weight u should technically be creating more holding friction between the ground and tyre

if handling was so important and your willing to spend so much money just to save a few kilos, why did you start off with a Lancer as your base??

It all comes down to being smart!

payaya wrote:if handling was so important and your willing to spend so much money just to save a few kilos, why did you start off with a Lancer as your base??

It all comes down to being smart!

classic and I think thats what we are all thinking. alloy block? f**k it just go on the biggest looser and loose a few kilos.

I don't think he is so much talking about losing 20kg from the car...
Droidy is emphasasing losing 20kg at the front of the car

If I had a choice to lose weight in any area of my car, it would definately be the front as well

ok guys sorry for the delay. I finally got a chance to talk to David Woodhouse, the Austin Heally dude. I just rocked up on his doorstep and he's like, come in, want a cup of tea? Well he was really cool and was happy to show me his handy work- 95% of whhich he did in his backshed. Basically, it cost hhim 7500 just to machine the block Thhis was mainly due to the fact that most of the equipment around oz is designed for bigger engines?? Anyway's I'm sure this figure could come down.. but basically the materials needed are basic and cheap (for the patternmaking), thhe casting- not sure on the cost of, but machhining- a lot to get it perfect! But defiitely doable. So he's given me some leads, taught me a lot in the hour or so I was there, and gave me a lot of confidence I could do this motly myself (except for casting/machining!) All in all a great learning curve- lot's of work to do- gotta find out how to machine it for less than that, and how much it costs to cast. People do it though... oh yeah, he spent 7 years in his spare time doing the pattern making 9( the old school way) and has sold 2 blocks at 14 grand each!

spetz wrote:I don't think he is so much talking about losing 20kg from the car...
Droidy is emphasasing losing 20kg at the front of the car

If I had a choice to lose weight in any area of my car, it would definately be the front as well

s a r c a s t i c

if you are really seroious get hold of a few aluminium engine blocks, then it will be the right type of alloy. Melt them down for the metal required or just get a large piece of billet aluminium alloy. then take the block of alloy to a engineering shop with a advanced automated 5 axis cnc machine make sure you have an original block for them to copy, find the right engineering shop and they should have two machines one that copies and then transfers the original blocks design to a 3d image which is then programed into the automated 5 axis cnc machine and then they can knock one out any time someone wants one.

waste of money in my opinion

That's a great idea about melting down old engines. Yeah, there's the old school pattern making, using chisels and wood, and then now with modern software and technology- 3d imaging. I wasn't sure this type of service was widely available. Think you still have to cut the engine in sections to get the pattern of the internal parts.. I think in a na application in a lancer it is worth it, in an fto with a twin turbo 2.5- maybe not necessary. Anyways I've got a 6a13 on the way, might aswell go the whole way and do this with a 2.5.

Are these alloys actually stronger that cast iron? And how well do they work containing heat?

Dude I still think you're better off with a 4G63. The time attack EVO in Japan is around 650hp atw and there's still potential there to make more. When you got that much power you can afford an extra 40kg of weight.

Nacho, no alloy is much weaker than cast iron
That is why Honda engines need block support etc and are only good for a certain amount of power
Same with 200SX SR20, after about 500hp the block warps

That's also why the "best" engines in the world are cast iron, RB26, 2JZ, 4G63 etc
They can just hold a lot more power due to block strength

Alloy also gets rid of heat quicker than iron

So you reckon alloy isn't as strong as iron.. probably not quite as strong going by those examples you gave spetz. Because it's the equivalent of about half the weight, you can actulally beef up the cast, make it a bit stronger. That's what the guy did with the healy motor. Manufacturers cut down on materials as much possible, to cut costs obviously. So if you make your own engine, you can actually make it stronger than stock- the way it should be really. Interesting I thought.. but anyways, yes an evo motor with iron block would make for a fast setup.. I'm already commited to all motor though, I actually like the linear power curve. It's better to have power right across the rev range, and I think with a 6a13 bottom end, this is achievable. Plus I won't have an intercooler at the front, more of a sleeper! And people will be surprised more by the results.
The thing about the heat dissapation is interesting, if an alloy block runs cooler, maybe it would make more power than the same motor with an iron block. Could be interesting.
So basically, iron blocks are great for high boost turbo/supercharger applications, alloy I think much better suited to na. It might not be quite as strong, but I guess you're not likely to reach a power output with a naturally aspirated motor that would be high enough to damage it, regardless of the displacement. And I think it will save more than 20 kg, just have to wait till I get my 6a13, strip it down, then weigh the block. Then cut in half. If a titanium based composite is available, cut of 75% of the original weight. People are using this material a bit now I think.

btw spetz, If you weighed your hood at 15 kg there must be an aditional 4kg just in undercoat, cause I had a new one painted up, and they didn't use primer- just painted straight onto the black plastic coating on the replacement hood (damn panel shops cutting costs). Just shows how much the paint system on a car weighs in at. That's one of the weight saving attributes of cf I guess, no heavy ass 2pac paint on it!

PPS I was reading in sport compact car the other day, replacing your turret with a light weight aluminium one like evo 8.5 (MR) and I think the 9 (?) or even better cf, gives three times the benifit in terms of lowering the centre of gravity of the vehichle than replacing other panels like the hood with light weight replacements. No great surprise I guess, being that the roof is the highest point of the car- but interesting nonetheless. This is a good point for thinner glass panels on type r's too I suppose- not sure if hondas have light weight roofs though.

spetz wrote:Nacho, no alloy is much weaker than cast iron
That is why Honda engines need block support etc and are only good for a certain amount of power
Same with 200SX SR20, after about 500hp the block warps

That's also why the "best" engines in the world are cast iron, RB26, 2JZ, 4G63 etc
They can just hold a lot more power due to block strength

Alloy also gets rid of heat quicker than iron

yep don't forget my RB25! tough engines...