0-100 for tip??

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:03 pm

i'd have to say Scracy's car should be able to run mid-high 13s with relative ease... We'll be organising a track day at Heathcote towards March/April for some runs so stay tuned for some official ETs!

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:11 pm

Ive run mid 14s quite easily but at that time my air/fuel ratio was no where near right (22.5:1) talk about lean! hard to make power when trying to burn too much air. Also at that time my torque converter was pretty much shot. As for what id run now that things are set up and sorted well maybe high 13s i think low or mid 13s is a bit optomistic. My fto has teriffic 0-100k times but lacks 1/4 times,probably due to the torqueless nature of the engine.Being auto doesnt help either as past experience has shown launching of the line is differcult.Either way i wouldnt get near your times Danny,but then i havent really spent any money either (i bought the car pretty much as is) the car is quick/reliable at street speeds which is what i wanted to achieve. We will see what times i get in march/april

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:45 pm

lets hope it is in the low 13s

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:50 pm

My fto has teriffic 0-100k times but lacks 1/4 times,probably due to the torqueless nature of the engine

Scracy i'm rather surprised because wouldn't the T28 be giving you a big torque band from the midrange?? so really, when you shift to the next gear the needle should drop back right into the meat of your torque curve that should take you into MIVEC mode without much effort (which incidentally should also be the point where boost starts to taper off a little near 6700-7000rpm)

but yeah being an auto certainly doesn't help as much coming off the line - i can imagine your problems with torque steer/wheelspin during launch hehehe..

i'm sure with better tyres (*cough* RE55s!*cough*) you can scrub maybe up to 0.25secs off and with some weight off the car and a slightly higher stall, you'd be nudging mid 13s pretty easily... having a cold ambient air temp would certainly help too hehehe... maybe we should reschedule our Heathcote run to be held smack bang in the middle of winter instead hehehe...

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:15 pm

Yeah Mikey ive got heaps of torque in the mid range but like all ftos i have nothing in the way of torque down low. Unlike yourself i cant just give it revs and dump the clutch. Ah if only i had a manual fto with a variable vane turbo charger!!! I think my 60 foot time is slow,thats where im losing time,need to practice launches he he!

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GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:47 pm

i think the problem is not lack of torque, more like wheelspin off the line LOL... the T28 would be hitting boost from 2800rpm and given you're in 1st gear during launch, it'll hit boost very very quickly which may be overwhelming your tyre grip threshold..

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:53 pm

GPXXX wrote:the T28 would be hitting boost from 2800rpm

That depends how u set it up!

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:37 pm

Mine is set up to spool up on boost from around 3000rpm (depending on load) and gives a nice flat boost curve upto 8300rpm. But youre correct Kev in saying that it does depend on how the turbo is set up (turbine housing size,compressor housing size, turbine profile,compressor profile etc) all affect turbo performance characteristics.

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:27 pm

the FTO is a decent performance car, but you cant expect great 0-100 times. The problem with the FTO is the peak power and torque are produced right up in the rev range. If you think about it the GPX has 147KW but when do you actually use the 147KW? 5% of the time?

Other cars reach peak power and torque lower in the rev range, so theres more useble power. Also 2 litres is tiny thats why the FTO has a really short stoke, to produce more power, and more revs.

Grip isnt a problem with the FTO if its auto, theres nothing down low, stalling the auto does help, but its marginal, probable .2 a second over the quarter and 0-100. The tips main problem (4 speed) is the tall second gear, around 140km/h in the red line is way too high, around 110-120 would be better. A shift kit on the FTO i believe will do crap all with the money spent, and the 4 speed isnt that strong of a box, and putting in a stall convertor will only pose more problems with the gearbox.

If you are in a drag with someone with a similar powered car, the FTO is able to keep up or even be quicker in first gear, but as soon as you throw the auto into second, the revs drop to about 5000rpm, and theres absolutely no power there, the other car would be overtaking by now. I dont know about the manual box but the 4speed weakness is here.

Also in my opinion the FTO V6 is worked to probably near its limit. Its a really good engine, but too bad its so good from the factory, aftermarket accessories dont make that much of a difference in power. To really get a fair bit more power, you have to spend a lot of money, as the asual exhuast, filters do not make a big difference on this engine.

The only way to extract a lot more power, is either go manual, or forced induction.

Has anyone tried stoking or boring out the FTO engine? Even an extra 200CC's will help with low down torque, this is what you want for acceleration.

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:29 pm

scracy wrote:Mine is set up to spool up on boost from around 3000rpm (depending on load) and gives a nice flat boost curve upto 8300rpm. But youre correct Kev in saying that it does depend on how the turbo is set up (turbine housing size,compressor housing size, turbine profile,compressor profile etc) all affect turbo performance characteristics.

do you lose any power up in the rev range? how much torue you reckon your producing now? 300NM? 350NM?

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:33 pm

scracy wrote:Yeah Mikey ive got heaps of torque in the mid range but like all ftos i have nothing in the way of torque down low. Unlike yourself i cant just give it revs and dump the clutch. Ah if only i had a manual fto with a variable vane turbo charger!!! I think my 60 foot time is slow,thats where im losing time,need to practice launches he he! [/img]

watch out you dont stall the auto up too much and dont do it too much. The FTO has terrible cooling to the auto box, you look at the setup in the radiator it doesnt do much.

If you constantly load up the auto invest in a aftermarket auto cooler. Seriously if it worth stalling the car up though? I noticed crap all difference in takeoff, i dont reckon its worth the .1 or .2 second imporvement while its doing damage to your gearbox.

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:38 pm

hnm738 wrote:well i go side by side with the commies from the lights without launching which is to me quite slow
comparing to things i read saying tip gpx can get 7.8 - 8.5 easy

the problem with the commdores and the falcons is when dragging they pull ahead at idle if your FTO is auto. They have more useable power lower in the rev range than the FTO. Thats why they are 4.0L and 3.8L double the FTOs capacity. They have way more torque down low. Also RWD helps!

dont even attemped a BA falcon, they have shitload of torque they are very quick for family cars.

The FTO seems to do good from a roll on, around 80+ seems to be able to keep up with cars, that it cant when dragging from idle.

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:40 pm

GPXXX wrote:
My fto has teriffic 0-100k times but lacks 1/4 times,probably due to the torqueless nature of the engine
Scracy i'm rather surprised because wouldn't the T28 be giving you a big torque band from the midrange?? so really, when you shift to the next gear the needle should drop back right into the meat of your torque curve that should take you into MIVEC mode without much effort (which incidentally should also be the point where boost starts to taper off a little near 6700-7000rpm)

but yeah being an auto certainly doesn't help as much coming off the line - i can imagine your problems with torque steer/wheelspin during launch hehehe..

i'm sure with better tyres (*cough* RE55s!*cough*) you can scrub maybe up to 0.25secs off and with some weight off the car and a slightly higher stall, you'd be nudging mid 13s pretty easily... having a cold ambient air temp would certainly help too hehehe... maybe we should reschedule our Heathcote run to be held smack bang in the middle of winter instead hehehe...

well if its quater mile times arent that flash, obviously its running out of puff up high in the rev range, quick off the mark but slow trap speed at the end. a larger turbo might be the go, but dunno if the lag would be acceptable though.

FTO-NX · Post by **FTO-NX** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:07 am

hey
i got a tip gr....and id like to ask if how much difference does a manual gpx or gr than a tiptronic one..because we all know tips dont have enough torque at low revs what about manuals??? and plus now where on summer days if i turn on the aircon while driving it does sometimes pissed me off because it feels like its not moving...is it the same as manuals??

thanx....

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:15 am

FTO-NX wrote:hey
i got a tip gr....and id like to ask if how much difference does a manual gpx or gr than a tiptronic one..because we all know tips dont have enough torque at low revs what about manuals??? and plus now where on summer days if i turn on the aircon while driving it does sometimes pissed me off because it feels like its not moving...is it the same as manuals??

thanx....

the GR tip has as much torque as a manual, but because gear ratios are higher the usuable torque is less.

theres bout a second 0-100 and over the quarter between the two.

FTO-NX · Post by **FTO-NX** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:44 pm

so u sayin its not much is it???
well if i say i want to buy a manual fto gpx or gr maybe, is it really worth the money changing to tiptronic to manual car???
because ive been thinkin of buying a manual car and i still want fto i just want to know how big is the difference when it comes to performance...
if not i might buy a turbo one..hehe

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:44 am

the performance difference is noticeable.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:39 am

FTO-NX wrote:so u sayin its not much is it???
well if i say i want to buy a manual fto gpx or gr maybe, is it really worth the money changing to tiptronic to manual car???
because ive been thinkin of buying a manual car and i still want fto i just want to know how big is the difference when it comes to performance...
if not i might buy a turbo one..hehe

whether it be a GPvR, GPX, GR or even GS, you are better off getting the manual in the first place...

just my 2c...

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:28 pm

I dont really find problems with toruqe down low or the midrange, i have a manual, and I find that in 1st gear the car will pull much quicker then cars with a lot more power due to the fact it only ways 1170 kgs.
I find that in a manual off the line if you launch right, you never see the needle bellow 5.5k anyways so what do you need that low down torque for anyways ?? Another problem is traction you mentioned traction is no probs with a tip, but i find i really have to ride the clutch on hard launches, usually ill rev to 3-5k, and bring th clutch up slowlly on the virge of breaking traction , not too sure how this is for the clutch ( nearly gone through my 2nd lol. But its intreating how you say 2nd has no toruqe, because when i drag other ftos, i seem to pull ahead in the mid range, and stop pulling ahead as it gets closer to 8k, until the next gear.
When you say the fto is highly tuned as stock, and exhaust and air filter does nothing i have to disagree, although you wouldnt see the sort of gains as you would wiht a turbo car, or higher capacity car, I think the gains are definitly worthet and while you would recive a total of around 15-20kw gain (depending on your setup) when racing against other cars which weight 1500-2000 kgs, thats equal to a 30+kw gain power to weight ratio

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:51 pm

well my clutch is slipping like a bithc on 1st and 2nd so I have to really rely on 3rd to pull away (and i don't run against anybody unless i have close to or less than 1/4 left in the tank, hehehe)