Danny's And Jeff's 6A13 turbo Conversions

borgan · Post by **borgan** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:58 pm

Post subject:

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Danny wrote:

"Are those figures at the wheels or at the flywheel. Wheels I hope"

I wish!!!! FWD manual have least driveline losses & 4WD auto's the most. Downside is just under 260 at wheels.
Upside is traction & lots of it.

Danny wrote:

"I think you could still keep it twin turbo but just upgrade to some after market garrett turbos ( i would consider twin GT28's or GT32's then it would be a real monster, a bit of lag but huge potential )"

You've seen how tiny they (the std turbos) are. I think space would be an issue. Will look into it though as twin GT28's would provide all the power I would ever need!!!!

Danny wrote:

"My research is telling me that twin turbo's are better than one big single for power"

Possibly true on a fwd, a more progressive power delivery rather than a huge hit of boost may make the car more controllable & allow you to use a less extreme clutch setup. The added control making the car faster overall.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:29 am

mate you still got to be happy with 260 at the wheels thats more than a stock GTR skyline.

I got traction problems alright

, sometimes i wish mine was a 4WD, but it so great to see the looks on there faces when they get done by a FWD, I have had some great kills. Will be interesting to see what the RA-1's are like, i had a pair of 235/45/17 race tyres but they were too big and rubed on the front suspension.

Still remembering when the engine was in the VR4 Galant half cut that i gotmy 2nd engine from there looked like enough room for GT 28's if it was done with custom exhaust manifolds, but then it would be cheaper to do a big single and you could use your original manifolds just make up a branch pipe to the turbo and sit it on top of the gearbox like i did and the 6A13 seems to like the GT30 real nice.

Some of the material i been reading suggests there is less lag when two turbos are used if you design the system right lots of variables, like the exhaust pulse and diameter and length of the exhaust runners, size and shape of the exhaust plenum chamber. I am going to have to read it several times for it all to sink in, to much fun over the years the brain aint as sharp as it used to be.

I have been looking into getting a twin plate carbon clutch made as my custom metal twin plate wont handle the high boost. I often wish mine was auto. even with the extra power losses, just build a more powerful engine.

RichardB · Post by **RichardB** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:48 am

Heres an interesting Idea....what are the FTO GR Cams like compared to the VR4. Are they compatable and what are the 2 different profiles like?

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:32 am

Ill Have a look when i get a chance, I got a 6A12 non mivec motor, but i havent had a chance to start pulling it apart. I will try and compare them over the next few weeks. Bit busy at the moment.

I would expect that they would have differant duration and overlap

RichardB · Post by **RichardB** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:42 am

Just spotted the other thread about GR Cams, if they are compatable that would be interesting.....

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:45 pm

Danny
If you could have a look at those cams asap it would be much apriciated. The deal I did when I bought the 6A13, was I traded in the 6A12. So I still have it but only for a few more days. I have already swopped most of the decent parts off the 12 and put on the 13. The 13 had been in an accident ( like most front cuts) and also had a lot of rust, on the Gold Coast (salt air). So I have swopped a lot of parts.
If the cams are better off the 12 GR non mivec , I need to know quickly so I can swop them before I have to give back the 12.
Jeff

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:53 pm

Hi Borgon,
260hp atw is good for an FTO.
What is your setup? Reading between the lines you have done the 6A13 conversion but kept the original twin turbos or upgraded the twins?
Please give us all a description of what you have done.
Jeff

borgan · Post by **borgan** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:26 am

The 6a13tt that a few of you are converting originates from the 96 onwards galant/legnum vr4 & I'm the proud owner of one.
I decided to upgrade the std turbos & to avoid downtime whilst they were getting upgraded I bought Danny's unused turbos. Kevin at Majestic Turbo in Texas uprated them allowing around 20% more flow.

I posted on here to let Danny know how I got on with them. Although I don't have an FTO we share the same engine & as info on this engine is scarce I thought that some of the results that I've obtained might be useful to those unsure whether to go single or twin turbo.

The turbos themselves have been ported, the wheels clipped & a stronger shaft has been used. The original shaft is very thin & likely to break if subjected to too much airflow. How much boost the shaft can handle I'm not sure about. The Hp limit for the std turbos is around 360 at the flywheel. I should be able to get around 425 at the flywheel with the modified ones.

The other modifications are a boost controller, larger intercooler, hard ic pipes (replacing the soft mitsi ones), downpipe & exhaust (std v.restrictive) & hks air filter with fuelling & ignition controlled by a unichip.

Given the chance to start again I would have done things differently. That's what's so great about the net. You can get in touch with people from far away & compare results. Very few UK tuners know much about the 6a13tt as there are so few of them around.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:58 pm

i believe there is also another variant of the 6A13TT for the VR4 Type-S Galant which puts out 191kw (compared to the 206kw), but i suspect it may have been detuned to suit the auto, perhaps?

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:29 am

Jeff wrote:Danny
If you could have a look at those cams asap it would be much apriciated. The deal I did when I bought the 6A13, was I traded in the 6A12. So I still have it but only for a few more days. I have already swopped most of the decent parts off the 12 and put on the 13. The 13 had been in an accident ( like most front cuts) and also had a lot of rust, on the Gold Coast (salt air). So I have swopped a lot of parts.
If the cams are better off the 12 GR non mivec , I need to know quickly so I can swop them before I have to give back the 12.
Jeff

Sorry Jeff I just havent got the time during the day at the moment, as i would have to set up and measure the 6A13 cam's duration, lift, overlap using a dial indicator and magnetic base and then compare to the 6A12, Also I havent been able to find my dial indicator and magnetic base, so i would have to borrow them.

When i get time i will let you know the differances, but you need to speak to a cam specialist about what is the best cam and it depends on what you have done with the rest of your set up as turbo and naturally aspirated cams are usually totaly differant

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:37 am

GPXXX wrote:i believe there is also another variant of the 6A13TT for the VR4 Type-S Galant which puts out 191kw (compared to the 206kw), but i suspect it may have been detuned to suit the auto, perhaps?

My understanding is that he VR4 Type-S Galant is the same motor just a differant computer, as some of the VR4 owners in the UK have installed the later computer for the VR4 Auto that puts out 206 Kw into the 191Kw to get more power.

As some of the early 6A13TT VR4's with a Auto only put out 191Kw while the manual put out the 206Kw, however at some point ( I am not certain what year ) they started to supply the VR4 auto's with 206Kw

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:19 pm

Just an update for those interested.
Still awhile for getting my car back. The exhaust manifold plates still haven`t arrived yet. ( I wish I had thought about yours Danny.) So until they arrive they cannot do the exhaust plumbing, turbo, dump pipe, or intercooler.
They promised about 3 weeks in total, so I thought about 5, but now it has been 7.
Lesson for anyone contemplating a transplant or a custom turbo job ( as the FTO has to be.) Be prepared to be without your baby for some time.
I miss my pride and joy.
Jeff

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:01 pm

hows it coming along Jeff

Any more pics yet or news

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:44 pm

dannyboyau wrote: Mine spins when ever i want it too and when i don't
But i just feather the throttle and try and keep traction.

Hey danny, i don't think it's an issue with the tyres... i believe your suspension is more or less tuned for the street, therefore the valve bound/rebound rates are not suitable for coping weight transfer effectively during accelleration...

i only have about 200hp at the wheels (with nothing more than lowered springs as far as suspension is concerned) and i'm already having considerable issues with traction LoL...

if you want some decent ETs from your beast, you'll need some proper suspension work to leverage all that mumbo onto the ground (but i'm sure you know that already...

)

the annoying thing is though', FWD drag setup looks crap on the street... (thank god for coilover adjustables)

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:41 am

i am already using ohlins ajustable coilovers

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:24 pm

just added a few pics of some of the forged pistons and rods and a couple of comparison pics of the original rods next to the new forgies.

The pistons are ceramic coated.

The engine block has the balanced, polished and shotpeened crank in.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:04 pm

Just an update on my Baby.
Still no car yet.
The latest is that with the lack of room in the engine bay they decided that the heat would be an issue so they have sent off the new completed manifolds to be ceramic coated. ( Danny suggested this ages ago. )
Once they are back it is just fitting, and then a day tuning. So hopefully soon.
Jeff

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:14 pm

looks like both our cars will come back at about the same time, but mine will have the good motor, been cleaning all the lifters this morning, just having a break, should finish the engine build this afternoon, the pistons and rods are in and feeling nice with the new bearings, heads are on and timing belt, new bearings and adjuster go on next. and it will go back in the car during the week. With the reconned gearbox.

Here is the links to my photos and Jeffs website for those interested, save you looking back through the post.

http://photos.yahoo.com/dannyboyau

http://www.uq.net.au/whocares/FTO.html

More photos to come

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:07 pm

Just paid my baby a visit.
Although it is taking forever, It is looking fantastic, so far. These guys are doing a great job, so I will pull my head in about the overtime. They were worried about the heat, so not only have they sent the manifolds for ceramic coating but they have relocated the fuel lines to the other side of the car to keep them away from the heat. The plumbing and hoses all look very professional. Sorry I didn`t have my camera with me.
I will still withold final judgement on this workshop until I see the final bill and the dyno charts, but I can hardly wait to get it back.

P.S. Danny can you please hold off doing a 1/4 mile for a few more weeks, so just for a short period I can own the quickest FTO in the Universe.
Jeff

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:44 pm

your in luck was reading the workshop manuals and found that there maybe 3 differant possibilities for the tension of the head bolts

so due to the conflicting tensions for the head bolts in the differant workshop manuals i have for the 6A1X series of engines and the fact i will be running the boost at 2 bar. I decided to get some ARP head studs made, So thus the engine build is at a stand still till i get the Head studs then i will have to rip the heads off and put the head studs in.

The engine is all togeather sitting on the engine stand but it had been bugging me for a long time about the head bolts, even before i started the rebuild and when i came across the different tensions, that decided it so i rang ARP last night and put in an order. Running it at 2 bar with stock bolts that might not be at there correct tension is risking blowing the head gasket.

bright side is I have just added another performance part to the 6a12 and 6a13 engines( head bolt same size for both engines ) ARP head studs.

Hey Jeff you will have too pay it another visit this week with a camera, I would love to see a few more pics, Did they relocate the throttle body ?