Info From Mitsubishi

salacious · Post by **salacious** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:06 pm

I'm sure the duty cycle of the injectors has a good bit of headroom left and you shouldn't need larger injectors. I don't think an uprated fuel pump would be needed but a uprated fuel pressure regulator might be an idea.

2100cc is only a 5% increase in capacity so I would only expect a 10bhp gain although this would be higher if it was ported and polished.

The default ECU will automatically injects more fuel into the cylinders if it is running lean, as it would with the increased capacity. It may only do this for a certain range and I don't know if thus increase would be outside that. Since it is a official Mitsi part I would expect it to work.

You would also need a full gasket set and piston rings, and this isn't cheap

wildfaye · Post by **wildfaye** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:34 am

Hi guys, if found more part numbers for the piston upgrades.

For the Mivec engines, it consists of :
1. set of piston ring set and
2. piston and pin assembly (right)
3. piston and pin assembly (left)

Stock parts are as follows:
1. MD189104
2. MD316711
3. MD316717

Oversize 0.5mm
1. MD189106
2. MD323691
3. MD323689

Oversize 1mm
1. MD189108
2. MD323692
3. MD323690

Except the the piston ring set for all 3 sizes which are shared with the galant models. The rest of the piston and pin assembly is FTO specific, which means u will definitely need a special order and it means more money!

salacious · Post by **salacious** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:47 am

I think you have the part numbers are around the wrong way for the left and right banks for the oversized pistons (not that it really makes much difference as you would need both)

The piston rings are the same for the MIVEC and non-MIVEC engines

Stock parts
1. MD189104
2. MD316711 (MIVEC) - MD316698 (non-MIVEC)
3. MD316717 (MIVEC) - MD316704 (non-MIVEC)

Oversize 0.5mm
1. MD189106
2. MD323689 (MIVEC) - MD323676 (non-MIVEC)
3. MD323691 (MIVEC) - MD232678 (non-MIVEC)

Oversize 1.0mm
1. MD189108
2. MD323690 (MIVEC) - MD323677 (non-MIVEC)
3. MD323692 (MIVEC) - MD323679 (non-MIVEC)

edit: I had the oversized piston around the wrong way

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:17 am

if you are looking at boring the block out and putting in oversized pistons.

I suggest you check the prices from mitsubishi, i say this as i priced some pistons new for the 6A13 engine and they are more expensive than top of the line forged pistons.

you really want to increase the power of the 6A12 and keep it normally aspirated while increasing its capacity

1. forged pistons with a higher compression ratio $1000 - $2500 depends which brand. this will give you best bang for your buck
2. port and flow matching of all ports on the heads ( forget polishing inlets, actually decreases performance) $600 - $3500 depends how good a job you want, it is all about the time it takes to do the job.
3. larger valves $1200 - $5000 depends what type of valve you get custom made, if you could find anouther engine that has the same valve with a larger head you could get it done much cheaper.
4. Five angles on the valve seats and the valves $1000 - $2000 time is money again
5. stroke the crank $ 4000 plus, this one is a big one as you would have to also get custom made conrods and then they would have to do a lot of work to the crankshaft. again time is money
6. ceramic coat internals ( valves, exhaust ports, combustion chamber, pistons top and skirts ) this one is easy if you have the engine in bits, and will increase your horsepower, about $ 600 - $800
7. Cam shafts, about $2500 from RPW
8. there is other imporvments outside the engine, but most of them have been discussed in previous posts

If you got the money you could increase the engine performance considerably

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:13 am

From what you saying danny, even using the cheapest figure, it still going to cost at least $11K & it can goes up to $20K+

So what sort of power figure would u expected?

wildfaye · Post by **wildfaye** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:55 pm

salacious wrote:I think you have the part numbers are around the wrong way for the left and right banks for the oversized pistons (not that it really makes much difference as you would need both)

Opps!

Did i mix up the 0.5mm and 1.0mm part numbers as well?

Anyway, Danny has spoken, it seems its a pretty BIG job.
I was wondering if we could just upsize the pistons and levae it as it is?

Btw, does anyone knows of any aftermarket pistons for our engines?
Its pretty tough innit? Its not a SR20 or a RB26 or even a 4G63 yeah knoe...

Post by **smorison** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:01 pm

only way is to bash those part numbers into CAPS (which i don't have with me) and check see if they are re-used on other engines. if they are then you need to go searching for manufacturer's of aftermarket bits n pieces for those engines...

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:19 pm

FTO338 wrote:From what you saying danny, even using the cheapest figure, it still going to cost at least $11K & it can goes up to $20K+ So what sort of power figure would u expected?

As soon as you crack open a motor and start putting in new pistons, think $5000 - $6000 for a good job you will get cheaper but you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

Use forged internals $ 8000 - $10000, A good set of forged rods and pistons you are looking at $4000 - $5000, gasket set, Timing belt, seals, bearings, maybe $1000 - $2000 depends if you replace most parts that can wear out or you use the old ones and risk having to pull it down not long after to replace a water pump or a timing belt tensioner, also depends how many Ks the motor has done that you start with, Labour $2000 - $3000 you need to remove the motor from the car then strip it and put it back togeather, How many people out there are experianced with rebuilding a 6A12. There will be other costs too.

for the sort money you are spending you would be better to go turbo.

with the power increase untill you do it you cant be sure how much as you are only guessing. I would think around 300 Hp at the flywheel if you did everything including the items below, it is already a highly tuned 2 LTR N/A

also remember with all those internal mods i spoke about you still have the fuel system to upgrade $2000, exaust and throttle body and CAI and computer and tuning.

salacious · Post by **salacious** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:25 pm

Unfortuately the pistons are only used in the FTO engine, the piston rings are used in some Galants (EA4W EC4W E54A E64A E74A E84A).

I think Danny just highlighted everything that you could get done to the engine if money was no object but I certainly think that you could just get away with getting the cylinders bored out and oversized piston being fitted

And I did mess up the order of the oversized pistons, i've fixed it now

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:34 pm

wildfaye wrote:
salacious wrote:I think you have the part numbers are around the wrong way for the left and right banks for the oversized pistons (not that it really makes much difference as you would need both)
Opps!

Did i mix up the 0.5mm and 1.0mm part numbers as well?

Anyway, Danny has spoken, it seems its a pretty BIG job.
I was wondering if we could just upsize the pistons and levae it as it is?

Btw, does anyone knows of any aftermarket pistons for our engines?
Its pretty tough innit? Its not a SR20 or a RB26 or even a 4G63 yeah knoe...

Yes you could just upsize the pistons, Still probably be around $5000 and this price can depend how many Ks it has done and how the engine has been treated during its life time. Could be a lot more, if more parts are needed. who does the work for you, if you have the right contacts you might save a bit on the labour.

There is a previous thread that had links to after market pistons at a good price, this would drop it a bit, but i think they might have been the wrong compression ratio, as from memory i think they where for the turbo 6A12.

Our problem is that the FTO was only really sold new in Japan so unlike the SR20 or a RB26,25,30 or even a 4G63, 2JZ, the list goes on and dont forget all these other engines have been around a few more years than the 6A line of engines, there is a lot more after market support out there and untill the 6A engines start pulling some big numbers and quick times there wont be a lot of notice taken of them.

If only they had produced a turbo FTO from the factory.

I am sure we can produce some interest in these engines over the next few years, when we show what they are capable off

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:34 pm

opps double post sorry

looks like i took to long to post the second message

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:42 pm

i am curious also has anyone priced the 6A12 pistons from mitsubishi

I would be interested to know the prices

there is some reasonable aftermarket pistons out there that would do the job on a non turbo car, our problem currently is that untill they have made a few sets they would be clased as custom made pistons and then the price goes up. Unlike the other heavily tuned engines which they keep pistons on the shelve for.

wildfaye · Post by **wildfaye** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:12 am

I found some other parts that are oversized as well, do not know if it will be needed for the oversized piston upgrades.

Guide, Inlet Valve
Guide, Exhaust Valve
Seat, Inlet Valve
Seat, Exhaust Valve

The above are shared with some galant models.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:40 am

wildfaye wrote:I found some other parts that are oversized as well, do not know if it will be needed for the oversized piston upgrades.

Guide, Inlet Valve
Guide, Exhaust Valve
Seat, Inlet Valve
Seat, Exhaust Valve

The above are shared with some galant models.

I find this very interesting as you would possibly think if there is a oversized , Inlet Valve Seat and Exhaust Valve Seat you would think that there would also be a oversized Inlet Valve and Exhaust Valve that would sit on those seats.

Please could you check this out and inform us of the part numbers and the sizes of them, Thank you

salacious · Post by **salacious** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:55 am

Guide Valves (all) Same as Lancer/Mirage (CB6A CK6A) and Galant (E53A E54A E64A E74A E84A)

Guide, Inlet Valve
MD187205 (MD337622) O/SIZE 0.05
MD187206 (MD337623) O/SIZE 0.25
MD187207 (MD337624) O/SIZE 0.50

Guide, Exhaust Valve
MD179910 (MD337625) O/SIZE 0.05
MD179911 (MD337626) O/SIZE 0.25
MD179912 (MD337627) O/SIZE 0.50

Valve Seats (all) Same as Galant (E54A E64A E74A E84A)
Seat, Inlet Valve
MD180392 O/SIZE 0.30
MD180393 O/SIZE 0.60

Seat, Exhaust Valve
MD180400 O/SIZE 0.30
MD180401 O/SIZE 0.60

Only seems to be one size of valves for Inlet and Exhaust

Valve, Inlet
MD212798 MIVEC (same as Galant E54A E64A)
MD160947 non-MIVEC (same as Galant E54A E64A E74A E84A)

Exhaust Valve
MD212912 MIVEC (same as Galant E54A E64A)
MD160948 non-MIVEC (same as Galant E54A E64A E74A E84A)

When you have a second number in brackets I believe this is the replacement part number

wildfaye · Post by **wildfaye** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:37 am

dannyboyau wrote:
wildfaye wrote:I found some other parts that are oversized as well, do not know if it will be needed for the oversized piston upgrades.

Guide, Inlet Valve
Guide, Exhaust Valve
Seat, Inlet Valve
Seat, Exhaust Valve

The above are shared with some galant models.
I find this very interesting as you would possibly think if there is a oversized , Inlet Valve Seat and Exhaust Valve Seat you would think that there would also be a oversized Inlet Valve and Exhaust Valve that would sit on those seats.

Please could you check this out and inform us of the part numbers and the sizes of them, Thank you

I am thinking the same as u did,

however, as salacious has posted, onli the guides and seat are oversized, the actual valves are not...weird isn't it?

wildfaye · Post by **wildfaye** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:40 am

dannyboyau wrote:i am curious also has anyone priced the 6A12 pistons from mitsubishi

I would be interested to know the prices

there is some reasonable aftermarket pistons out there that would do the job on a non turbo car, our problem currently is that untill they have made a few sets they would be clased as custom made pistons and then the price goes up. Unlike the other heavily tuned engines which they keep pistons on the shelve for.

I'll be dropping by my friendly garage later to have a chat with the guys there, hope they are able to sort some prices for me. In Singapore thou.

Since the pistons are FTO specific onli, i doubt there are any after market ones for us to us...any possibility of customising some?

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:46 am

Just to make things easier i'll try to find out you the supplier of these parts are , you should be able to get them for up to half price buying direct from the supplier.

That will have to wait till monday though

wildfaye · Post by **wildfaye** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:05 pm

I have also emailed the Jap guy with the mivec turbo who increased his engine capacity to 2.2L, hoep he understands singlish and gets back to me on the parts he used.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:19 am

you can get custom forged pistons made.

I just had some made for the 6A13 engine they are currently in being ceramic coated