NSW Legislation Changes: L and P Plate Drivers (lengthy!)

harry90 · Post by **harry90** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:58 am

I agree with everything you just said. Also, this one hasnt got much to do with P/L plates, but i hate the new law about a person car getting crushed because of doing burnouts or sreet racing. I agree that somehting needs to be done about it, but crushing someones car ? I mean come on, people spend 10's thousands on their cars. To see your PERSONAL property get cruhed is a stupid law.
I understand that a lot of people are going to say that fines and such arent enough, and i agree....BUT you CANT crush someones car. It is their personal property.

I agree with all the points given in the original post. It is true that all these laws where put up mostly all at once, just because a few p platers had deathly accidents. But if you think about it, now, as opposed to 15-20 yrs ago, when you didnt have to hold your provisional license for 3+ yrs, the number of accidents for p platers was a lot less...Why has this changed now ? Because when you are on your provisional license for 3 years, the chances of having an accident are a lot higher then if you were to only have your provisionals for 1 year. Why ? Because now that p platers gotta hold their license for longer it is more statistical that an accident will be proven to be caused by a provisional rather then anyone else, just because they dont have a full license.

Post by **vipfto** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:00 pm

BAHAHAHA I have to admit so true

harry90 · Post by **harry90** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:24 pm

xSlurpee wrote: the rest i dont mind, cause im unaffected by theses laws YET as im still a learner (weee can still drive turbo'd cars )

ummm...on yours p's and l's, you CANT drive turbos....

Post by **I8A4RE** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:33 pm

Very well put nicholas i agree with a lot of what you said as well as mr c but i will ask this simple question that is not directed at just this topic but all car related topics.

why doesnt anyone do anything about it but whinge (no offence to anyone) Talk to the media local government, write them a letter etc etc. Do you watch current affair and/or today tonight half the stories on there are just rubbish, im sure they would love a young person to interview who has some good ideas on making our roads safer which is a very hot topic right now. Start a petition, start a protest, anything is better than just whinging.

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX

nicholas · Post by **nicholas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:32 pm

Baha Simon, you'll need a bigger shovel soon if you keep digging through such old posts.

I was looking through the forum and thought 'hey, I remember posting a topic like that, I should abuse someone now for not searching'

Mate, you're completely right. It's a lot easier to whinge, and actions do speak louder than words.

I can only speak for myself, but these are the reasons why I think it's not worth it:
- these rules were introduced to appease the voting majority (and in our ageing population, the majority is NOT under 25)
- these rules were introduced as a knee-jerk reaction. Young drivers weren't consulted BEFORE the change was made, and I've yet to find even one instance of such a change being reversed AFTER it's been implemented.
- any young driver brave enough to go on TT / ACA etc is also STUPID because these shows will happily manipulate and fabricate complete B.S. to paint you as a hoon, irresponsible and immature. It's what gets ratings.

I'm not having a go at you, I agree completely with what you say... I'm just saying there are weighted and considered reasons why it's not worth the effort.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:39 pm

hey i didnt dig this oldie

.

nicholas · Post by **nicholas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:43 pm

Haha ok, you didn't. But I bet you still like a bit of a spade every now and then

@ Harry90,

You're wrong about L plate restrictions, unless they've changed the laws recently.

L platers can drive P-plate restricted cars while learning. It comes back to the whole technicality that a learner's permit isn't actually a licence and you're not the responsible driver. This is why supervising parents also get breath tested at RBTs and why they lose the points if you get caught speeding.

Also, I disagree with you (but no hard feelings) regarding car crushing. At least that penalty applies across the board, for everyone. Sure, it's harsh, but at least it doesn't deliver a hypocritical message like the "you can't speed until you're off your P's" law does.
Also, pretty sure you're legally incorrect in saying that it's "their possession". If you're caught breaking a law and handed down the punishment of 'car crushing', you've legally given away your car to the state, and they can do whatever they like with it because it's no longer your possession.

harry90 · Post by **harry90** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:36 pm

Im not saying its against the law, but people do spent a lot of money on it, and to see it get crushed is pretty extreme ( i believe).
I guess your right about L platers, i just checked up on the rta site.
I would use an example if i could, but i cant think of one. But thiik of your house or something...if something happened and it was taken from you. All im trying to say is, you can get your message across without destroying someones property, and as their are laws protecting people from vandalising others properties, it is pretty hypocritical also for the state to just take someones property. BUT, in saying that i do agree that something needs to be done about this issue. IMO crushing cars doesnt solve the problem. Just my opinion.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:36 pm

nicholas wrote:Also, I disagree with you (but no hard feelings) regarding car crushing. At least that penalty applies across the board, for everyone. Sure, it's harsh, but at least it doesn't deliver a hypocritical message like the "you can't speed until you're off your P's" law does.
Also, pretty sure you're legally incorrect in saying that it's "their possession". If you're caught breaking a law and handed down the punishment of 'car crushing', you've legally given away your car to the state, and they can do whatever they like with it because it's no longer your possession.

wow you go so well, then you just ruined

Ill draw your attention to this

At least that penalty applies across the board, for everyone. Sure, it's harsh, but at least it doesn't deliver a hypocritical message like the "you can't speed until you're off your P's" law does.

BS it is a hypocritical msg, sure go out drink drive and you will lose your licesene and fine, but spin your wheels off from a set of lights and we will crush your car, come on

Now i know you have to be caught 3 times doing this but IMO, you could spin your wheels from a million sets of lights and it will never be as daqngerous as drink driving

Car crushing is exactly what you were saying before about the new laws. ITS A KNEE JERK REACTION to convince the public that the state is doing something to fight the problem. Car crushing is a stupid plan that will fail, whats the person going to do when they have already been caught twice and are about to get caught for the third time and possibly lose their car........THEY WILL f**ken RUN. Now we have idoits running away from the police speeding through school zones etc.

nicholas · Post by **nicholas** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:53 am

Okay boys, cool those jets.

We're arguing about a very minor part of the whole, to the point where it's of questionable value to anyone.

Harry, all that I'm saying is that if you choose to street race / do burnouts and get caught NUMEROUS times, you have no re-course to say 'it's not fair, they can't take my car' because in committing the act, you sign your car away to the state.

Simon, I mean it's not hypocritical in the sense that it doesn't just apply to p-platers, like the 'zero tolerance for speeding' law does. Sure, the penalty seems harsher than drink-drive, but that's because the government has chosen to take that stance, and in that way I agree it probably is somewhat hypocritical... are you familiar with the saying 'the law is an ass'?

Both of you need to remember, this law has not and in the perceivable future will not be gazetted in NSW, so all this talk of car-crushing is purely hypothetical anyway.

Website · Post by **Lawso** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:42 pm

accidentally wheel spinning is more dangerous that drink driving?!?!?!?!?!?!

WTF

it'd be funny, if some p plater driving an old 80's hatch in the rain put his foot down a little too hard, and there was a cop over the other side of the road, and of course the car has lost so much horsepower, it has trouble doing a hill start. because you'd drag someone in a car like that. i'm in english standard at school, and i can identify thats so damn ironic, and cynical, and fake if you will.

i'm sure that p plater would go on TT or ACA or something without even thinking about the concequences. and i DOUBT that they could say that guy is a hoon, if he drives a car that he probably bought for 1000 bucks, and needs so much work to it that it should have probably been crucshed, or thrown to the junk yard years ago

ITS A KNEE JERK REACTION to convince the public that the state is doing something to fight the problem.

okay, so the state is fighing the problem, but the reaction has been more of a high kick to the face (ouch) rather than maybe setting some reasonable laws that would scare people out of speeding, dragging, driving like a douche.

these laws are scaring people off the road all together. go get the bus, i won't lose my car for accidentally spinning my tyres off a red light, sure it'll take me an extra hour to get to work, but at least i won't lose my car

nicholas · Post by **nicholas** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:23 pm

lawsochap, I see you're new here... welcome to the club.

You make some valid points but it's spoilt by a couple of inaccuracies.

I really don't think (happy to be disproven with cold hard evidence) that people are wasting an extra hour out of their day to catch the bus to work because they're worried about wheel-spinning from the traffic lights.
1. If you're in an underpowered 80s hatch and you're not able to regulate wheelspin, you shouldn't be on the roads.
2. Despite what many forum members will tell you, police DO have discretion and ARE allowed to use it.
3. This law DOESN'T exist in NSW so no-one should really be catching the bus anywhere just yet.

And quite sincerely, if you don't believe that TT / ACA would gladly crucify any young male P-plater... well with all due respect, you need to stop living under a rock.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:34 pm

And quite sincerely, if you don't believe that TT / ACA would gladly crucify any young male P-plater... well with all due respect, you need to stop living under a rock.

Dude come on, sure if you went on to their show and had a driving record as long as your arm and was spouting how much of a responsible driver you etc etc. Then yes they will destroy you, but if someone went on there who had an excellent driving record was well presented, and wasnt some stupid bogan, then maybe just maybe you could get a point across

nicholas · Post by **nicholas** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:54 pm

Dude, if you've seen the fucked up things they get away with, it's a travesty.

The incorrect facts, the unrelated footage, the chopping and re-arranging of interviews, the quoting of 'experts' who've they've found in the back alley behind the studio and given goon in exchange for an interview... the worst part is that they take advantage of / misrepresent the least suspecting/most geniune people a lot of the time. Sorry, but it's bullshit.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:07 pm

yeah i do agree, i just believe that you gotta do something, maybe tt/ACA is not the right way. But my point was more about doing something as apposed to doing nothing but whinging.

If you believe you have no power, then guess what? You have no power!

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:32 am

[rant] its all fucked up [/rant]

Tippin · Post by **Tippin** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:14 am

good points there, i agree with u 100%

The 2 big ones i have a problem with is the speeding policy and passenger after 11 policy, im actually still on my learners till oct but 2 of my mates have already lost their licence on their p's for speeding and one for stacking people in his boot after 11 lol

unfortunately i think these legislations are only gonna get worse as they think up of ways to target young drivers instead of taking care of drug dealers and so on.

Tippin · Post by **Tippin** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:18 am

actually i did hear that they were making the age for L's 16 and 9 months and increasing hours to 150, dunno if thats true but a friend told me

harry90 · Post by **harry90** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:53 am

Passenger restrictions is stupid....teens will just find another way to get into peoples cars to get home. And yes, if it means getting in the boot, people WILL do it, not thinking about the consequences.

manofwood · Post by **manofwood** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:30 pm

the car crush is a scare tactic and they should bring it in, i think, because if dickheads see other dickheads cars getting turned into alfoil, they'll think twice about being a prick on public roads.

the p's lower speed limit as compared to unrestricted licenses has always been a hindrence to society, and a lot of the time defeats the purpose of 'keep left unless overtaking' law from what i've seen (overtaking a p plater held back to 80 in a 100-110 zone etc)

in my opinion, i reckon that the main catylyst for all this sh*t happening, was old mate that totalled his R33 GTR, and then took out his 30 something year old mate and pregnant 16 year old girlfriend out in daddy's 700hp R34, only to be torn in half for doing some incredible speed over a crest, killing everyone, a couple of years back.

in this day and age, the current generation werent brought up with restraint and discipline, and run rampant because in their minds, laws were meant to be broken.