Stall Converter / Shift Kit ?

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:45 pm

Has anyone fitted a Stall Converter or a shift kit to a Tiptronic box?
I am wondering if it can be done on a front wheel drive?
If anyone has one, how much has it improved things and where did they get it from?
Jeff

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:03 am

with money almost anything can be done... LOL

stall convertors are only really suitable for specific applications that has specific power curves...

u won't find many mild-tuned crs on the road with higher stall fitted ontheir car, because they are usually reserved for extreme horsepower applications...

i have friends who drive VL turbos fitted with higher stalls and according to them it's not very driveable or a pain to drive in the streets...

besides that, the tiptronic are not very strong gearboxes anyway so even if u have a bulletproof motor with mega-HP and a high stall fitted, the gearbox will probably spit the dummy anyway...

I'm sure Angela (EXC) will vouch for this!

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:14 pm

exactly the FTO's gearbox is made from paper! dont recommend a stall convertor.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

So the general opinion is the tip box will not take a stall converter.
What about a shift kit?
Jeff

elmo · Post by **elmo** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:51 am

Ok, so isn't a "stall converter" the same as a "torque converter"?
You already have a torque converter, you just wanna change it to a high stall torque converter? I dont see a problem with that aslong as you can get one to fit.
As for the shift kit, they would need to do a full overhaul on your box and beef it up with stronger parts, so that the box can handle the extra load of manual shifting. They generally replace bands and bearings with stronger ones. I reckon if you got this done, the car would be ok with the high stall torque converter. I'll admit, I'm no expert on autos so find a good transmission joint and talk to them.

OK Everyone keeps saying the tip is soooo weak, how many of you have had trouble with it, other than normal wear?

And isn't what jeff is asking is how does he beef up his slushbox, which is a good move cause it is sooo weak?

Post by **smorison** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:45 am

on the long winding drives i do, i use the tip for engine braking and it spends most of its time in mivec range around the top of the taco. i've had no problems with it at all. I would expect people how high rev it in neutral then drop it into gear will experience problems, but others shouldn't.

The oil you use (and the money you spend on it) i believe makes a big difference.

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:04 pm

the fto gearbox is not the same as any magna and is very dear around $7000 brand new they arent all that weak as i am pumping around 250kw into it. BUT!!!!!!! the converters are as weak as piss!!!! and very costly nearly $2000 new. i have had no problems with the box.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:40 pm

Thanks for all your help. After talking to a lot of auto experts I found one that has done a lot of work on imports and even knows what an FTO is.
He states there is no shift kit for an FTO but he will fully service the box replace a lot of the parts with heavy duty parts and fit the high rpm stall converter. This I am hoping will make up for a lot of lost power through the tip box, but also beef it up so when RPW release their turbo kit the box will take it.
Jeff

MattG · Post by **MattG** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:52 pm

I've heard from a few places now that the Tiptronic box on the FTO is quite weak. If you do improve the stall convertor etc, it is a MUST that you also get an oil cooler fitted. When the oil heats up too much this is when the transmission gets damaged. Apparently incresing the stall convertor can result in increased heat.

see here:
http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_1902/cms/article.html

M@

rxboy · Post by **rxboy** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:49 pm

Is it healthy to keep revs up in the mivec range continuosly while cruising on a tip? I only hit mivec when accelerating hard, but never stay in it while travelling at constant speeds. The highest I keep it in is about 4.5k RPM.

Is this granny driving (ie am I too conservative) or am I taking reasonable precautions to keep the tip box in shape?

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:07 pm

Has anyone looked into how much it would cost to get a tip box Strengthened ?

Post by **smorison** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:24 pm

couple of grand most likely. depends on the parts and what they are made of.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:54 pm

Has anyone looked into how much it would cost to get a tip box Strengthened ?

This is what I am trying to get done.
The guy in Brisbane has quoted me roughly $2000 for the new stall converter and strengthening the box. He wont know how much he can strengthen the box untill he pulls it apart, but I have told him I wish to turbo it in the future so he knows he has to beef it up a lot.
He is putting on a oil cooler as part of it.
The car is booked in in early Nov so I will let you all know how it goes later.
Jeff

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:40 pm

How much stall are you going for? 4-6 grand?

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:03 pm

No where near that much. I still wish to drive it as my everyday car.
That high a RPM would makr it undrivable in traffic.
I am aiming for 2700rpm.
Jeff

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:13 pm

OK The box has been done.
Firstly when he pulled it apart the pins holding the planetary gears were worn and would have probably destroyed the box in 40-60K. This is probably why everyone says tip boxes are so weak. Mine has done 80K.
He was able to get made super heavy duty pins (Drag racing quality) and replaced those.
Next the oil cooler.
Then beefed up the box with heavy duty O rings etc. Almost the same as a shift kit. This certainly has changed those sluggish changes and feels as if it has taken 1/2 a sec off the 1/4 mile. I will be taking it to the strip in Jan so I will confirm this then.
Lastly the stall/Torque converter was serviced. He advised against taking up the stall limit as I use the car as my everyday drive.
The engineer has guarenteed this box will now take a turbo.
It ended up costing $3k but I am now ready for my turbo.
Bring it on RPW!!!!

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:00 pm

just as a rough guide, scracy's tip box spat the dummy with 250kw at the flywheel (apparently due to a crook torque convertor i think it was).

Let's just hope you're in better luck!

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:53 pm

Thats correct Mikey, the gear boxes are actually fairly strong. The problem exists with the torque converter as this is the weakest link. Like all manufacturers mitsubishi torque converters have internals made from cast iron which isnt suitable for high power applications. The easyist and cheapest way to strengthen the drive train is to have the torque converter rebuilt with billet steel parts, this costs around $300 and havent experienced any problems since. Im no expert with auto trannys but i would highly recommend a transmission oil cooler as this will allow the transmission fluid to do its job far more efficiently,considering how expensive the tip boxes are its money well spent.

WILL · Post by **WILL** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:43 pm

And thats why GREX has a oil cooler kit for the FTO

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:37 pm

Exactly Will thats why i have the oil cooler kit

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