Seat Harness - 3 / 4 Point

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:29 pm

I have questions about Seat Harneses.

1) How hard is it to put one in?

2) Would you have to do it professionaly or would you be able to do it your self?

3) I have seen Steve's harness, on a track day, is there a way where you put it in a mounting point without taking out the rear seat?

4) Which ones are better 3 point or 4 point harnesses?

5) If any one has done this please share your experiances...

Post by **smorison** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:24 am

in the future i'm going to be putting in either a perm half roll cage or a removable one... i will be mounting the harnesses directly onto these...

are you just after looks or do you plan to put your car on the track?

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:22 am

smorison wrote:are you just after looks or do you plan to put your car on the track?

hahaha... I wasn't aware that people put racing harnesses in for looks... gee... track... steve... track... hope for the next UAS track day...

Do you currently have a 3pt or 4pt? And can it be attached without removing the seat, through the standard seatbelt holes?

RichardH · Post by **RichardH** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:45 am

I installed a Willians 4-point harness...

It took a lot of work to do a really good job with the rear eye bolt positions.

One is inside the drivers side rear speaker grille, with a slot cut in it for clipping/unclipping. I used an angle grinder to make a clean set of cuts very low down at the front of the grille... virtually behind the top back seat padding. I need to push the top bit of the padded foam down to get in there.

The other eye bolt is dead centre at the very back of the parcel shelf.

Both were placed so as to go through two metal sheets. They both have big, chunky reinforcement underneath the sheet metal, then the nut at the bottom (the nut helps a lot to keep you in your seat in a crash!!

)

DO NOT just replace the rear lower seatbelt bolts with eye bolts... if you value your spine. The rear straps should go straight back, horizontally.

The front two points are simple eye bolt replacements for the front seatbelt bolts.

Hope this helps! I was gonna do a 'how-to' article, but never saw another FTO with a harness fitted at the track, so didn't think anyone else was obsessed enough to do it!

- Rich

Post by **smorison** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:11 pm

RichardH wrote: DO NOT just replace the rear lower seatbelt bolts with eye bolts... if you value your spine. The rear straps should go straight back, horizontally.

yeah that's why i'm looking for a better alternative

Hope this helps! I was gonna do a 'how-to' article, but never saw another FTO with a harness fitted at the track, so didn't think anyone else was obsessed enough to do it!

- Rich

haha i am

could you take a couple of happy snaps of what you've done... i'm still pretty keen on getting a half rollcage made but if i run out of time this could be a good option (yours).

paladin · Post by **paladin** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:37 pm

mm question....

in my car, on the rear speakers in about the middle of the grill is a big hook thing
is this child restraint or racing harness? because if its for a racing harness that would defiently explain what happened to my old engine

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:43 pm

I think it's the child restrain...

Post by **smorison** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:41 pm

paladin wrote:mm question....

in my car, on the rear speakers in about the middle of the grill is a big hook thing
is this child restraint or racing harness? because if its for a racing harness that would defiently explain what happened to my old engine

i've thought about using those mounts as well... my only concern is htey're designed to restrain a child... i'm substantially heavier than a 5yo...

paladin · Post by **paladin** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:40 pm

pitty its nto by maturity or i would have no problems

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:58 pm

I'm trying to get to the bottom of this, but I though I might post my questions here, some one might know...

What strength does the anchor point for the racing harness must be? Somewhere i read, can't remember, that it has to with stand like 1600kg, i'm still looking into it, shouldn't that figure be in kN?

Secondly, leading on from the previous post does anyone know what force can the child restraint anchors withstand?

Thirdly, I can't find any goverment documents/websites that have the standards for the mounting / anchor points...

Obviously there are different requirements for various racing events, can anyone point me to any technical requirements for the CAMS events regarding racing harnesses and their mounting... a website would be very good...

*sight*

RichardH · Post by **RichardH** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:52 pm

Don't touch the child restraint bit with a barge pole. Child seats are held in by using a standard seat belt PLUS the additional bolt clip at the top. And kids are light, hehe.

Bolting a three point harness rear strap set to that child restraint would be about as safe as restraining yourself with overcooked spaghetti. I don't think Willians do pasta of any sort, by the way.

The rear setup I've installed has been scrutineered about eight times at motorkhana, and once at the drags, and the officials commented on several occasions that it was well solid. The bolt would have to tear through two full sheets of metal. It couldn't easily come "up and out", as there are 4-6 square inches of thick reinforcing plate bits below the sheet metal. A plate would either need to carve its way right out (ie. big hole in both sheets) or tear the bolt sideways (ie. slice across both sheets).

Let's hope I never, ever get to find out!

- Rich

RichardH · Post by **RichardH** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:53 pm

...all that motorkhana scrutineering was under CAMS, by the way.

- Rich

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:43 am

RichardH wrote:...all that motorkhana scrutineering was under CAMS, by the way.

Good point.....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but while CAMS will do the inspection for the race track, if you want to have this as a permanent fixture (i.e. use it instead of your normal seat belt) and use it while on the open road, then you need to have the local Roads Authority inspect and approve the installation.

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:04 am

I believe it to be something like that... However i think also you forgot to mention that if it's an road registered vehicle, then you are not allowed to remove the normal seat belt.

Would you need an engineers certificate for the anchor points then? Cos the roads authority wouldn't actually have engineers would they?

Scenario: You are driving in your racing harness around town, and a police man pulls you over? Can he book you for being in the racing harness without paper work for it? (This is what i'm trying to find out, stupid "hold music"

)

Post by **smorison** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:38 pm

Boris wrote:I believe it to be something like that... However i think also you forgot to mention that if it's an road registered vehicle, then you are not allowed to remove the normal seat belt.

Would you need an engineers certificate for the anchor points then? Cos the roads authority wouldn't actually have engineers would they?

Scenario: You are driving in your racing harness around town, and a police man pulls you over? Can he book you for being in the racing harness without paper work for it? (This is what i'm trying to find out, stupid "hold music" )

i would say yes you would require an engineering certificate for it..

rich you got any picks?

RichardH · Post by **RichardH** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:43 pm

ruchi wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but while CAMS will do the inspection for the race track, if you want to have this as a permanent fixture (i.e. use it instead of your normal seat belt) and use it while on the open road, then you need to have the local Roads Authority inspect and approve the installation.

Oh, no, I have no suggestions on using a harness on public roads!!!

Regular seatbelts are just fine for me on the road... FTOs have pretensioners on the front ones, too.

- Rich

Bluntman · Post by **Bluntman** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 7:26 pm

As far as i am aware, as long as your seat belt meets Australian Standards and has been approved by the RTA or similar body then you are aloud to wear such device.
If you are pulled over by a cop it would be wise to carry the certificate, but if you explain that it has been then there shouldnt be much of a problem.