Re: Do track runs reduce aggression? - Off topic talk

Daniel2019 · Post by **Daniel2019** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:45 pm

PHIL069 wrote:I was sure I had 12 points not 8

I thought it was 4 on reds, 6 on greens and 8 on fulls

Youre probably correct

EDIT: Checked rta website, 4 for reds and 7 for greens.. couldnt find full license, so I think you might be right Phil

PHIL069 · Post by **PHIL069** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:46 pm

I was wrong, quote from RTA....
On 31 January 2011, the demerit points threshold for unrestricted licence holders in NSW increased from 12 to 13 points.

Edit: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/pe ... index.html
Accumulating points
A driver who has not committed any offences has zero points. When an offence that carries demerit points is committed, the points are added to the licence holder’s driving record. If the licence holder incurs the threshold number of demerit points within a three-year period, a licence suspension or refusal is applied. The thresholds are as follows:
•Unrestricted licence – 13 points.
•Professional drivers – 14 points (from 31 January 2011). See Changes to the demerit points scheme introduced on 31 January 2011 for more information.
•Provisional P2 licence – 7 points.
•Provisional P1 licence – 4 points.
•Learner licence – 4 points (from 28 September 2009).
•Unrestricted licence with a good behaviour period – 2 points within the term of the good behaviour period.

Daniel2019 · Post by **Daniel2019** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:47 pm

Learning!

PHIL069 · Post by **PHIL069** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:57 pm

I did a Demerit points report
You currently hold the following licence class(es):

Class MR Unrestricted
Class R Unrestricted

You have a total of 0 demerit point(s) on your licence.

Both licence classes will be suspended if your total demerit points reach or exceed 13.

For general information about demerit points please visit the RTA website.

Thank you for using myRecords. At the RTA we are always looking to improve the service we offer to customers. You can help us by completing our short survey.

Kustom · Post by **Kustom** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:00 pm

f**k in QLD both our P PLates (red and green) are on 4 points (but they come back each year)

And our opens we are on 12 and they return every 3 (or 2?).

phunkydude · Post by **phunkydude** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:22 pm

Daniel2019 wrote: You only notice the wanker hoons on Ps because, well, theyre doing crap that makes them stand out. It would be very interesting to see some stats on percentages of P platers vs Full license holders who get done for speeding/reckless driving, etc. Maybe Im wrong and you could very well be correct, it just seems that people seem to notice all the dickhead P platers, but not the ones driving properly. Cops hate P platers, too.. its a fact of life You dont look at a full license holder (maybe you do, but I dont ) who is speeding and go what a hoon! You say gee, he must be in a hurry. But if its a P plater - immediately; Reckless little bastard! Hes gonna kill someone! (<-- I think the same thing) Given, experience is a factor too.

Full license holders also face less severe penalties than P platers down here in NSW. i.e. ANY speeding offence is a loss of license for a P plater (we have 4 points but speeding = minimum 3 months license suspension, even if its within 5-10km of the speed limit) while a full license holder can cop as little as a single demerit point loss, out of their 8 maximum points. So the risk is much much lower for a full license holder in terms of breaking the law when compared to a P plater (such as myself - I basically refuse to speed as some of the NSW boys know from our cruises )

As for elderly people, it may not necessarily be simply "age" affecting driving. Things like vision affect it mostly. Although, age does contribute to these so I guess it kinda does contribute to accidents too so youre kinda correct with that in a way. It depends on the person, and their physical and mental capabilities and condition.

Yep! Statistics are proven facts.
Laws and penalties are based on generalization of the stats' results to achieve maximum effectiveness.

No one can deny that majority involved in fatal crashes due to speeding are from sub-21s youngster group.

Daniel2019 · Post by **Daniel2019** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:27 pm

phunkydude wrote:
Daniel2019 wrote: You only notice the wanker hoons on Ps because, well, theyre doing crap that makes them stand out. It would be very interesting to see some stats on percentages of P platers vs Full license holders who get done for speeding/reckless driving, etc. Maybe Im wrong and you could very well be correct, it just seems that people seem to notice all the dickhead P platers, but not the ones driving properly. Cops hate P platers, too.. its a fact of life You dont look at a full license holder (maybe you do, but I dont ) who is speeding and go what a hoon! You say gee, he must be in a hurry. But if its a P plater - immediately; Reckless little bastard! Hes gonna kill someone! (<-- I think the same thing) Given, experience is a factor too.

Full license holders also face less severe penalties than P platers down here in NSW. i.e. ANY speeding offence is a loss of license for a P plater (we have 4 points but speeding = minimum 3 months license suspension, even if its within 5-10km of the speed limit) while a full license holder can cop as little as a single demerit point loss, out of their 8 maximum points. So the risk is much much lower for a full license holder in terms of breaking the law when compared to a P plater (such as myself - I basically refuse to speed as some of the NSW boys know from our cruises )

As for elderly people, it may not necessarily be simply "age" affecting driving. Things like vision affect it mostly. Although, age does contribute to these so I guess it kinda does contribute to accidents too so youre kinda correct with that in a way. It depends on the person, and their physical and mental capabilities and condition.
Yep! Statistics are proven facts.
Laws and penalties are based on generalization of the stats' results to achieve maximum effectiveness.

No one can deny that majority involved in fatal crashes due to speeding are from sub-21s youngster group.

Id be interested in seeing some proper statistics on this. Although its hard to determine some things. For example, if a P plater crashes, is it because theyre inexperienced? Vehicle fault? Because they were "hooning"? Someone elses fault? etc. Is there a definite way to classify these?

Obviously if its like 50% of fatal crashes involve P platers then theres an issue, but what causes these crashes? Lack of driver knowledge because of inexperience, or were they simply being reckless because theyre young and stupid?

Also; this is kinda getting off topic; see here http://ftoaustralia.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26380 to continue this convo. I feel bad for hijacking this thread

Daniel2019 · Post by **Daniel2019** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:31 pm

Was getting off topic in the other thread, we kinda hijacked it

Continue here!

PHIL069 · Post by **PHIL069** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:33 pm

aza013 wrote:Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Daniel2019 · Post by **Daniel2019** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:34 pm

PHIL069 wrote:
aza013 wrote:Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

But we derailed the other thread!

Sahin · Post by **Sahin** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:35 pm

Bwebib!

phunkydude · Post by **phunkydude** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Daniel2019 wrote: Id be interested in seeing some proper statistics on this. Although its hard to determine some things. For example, if a P plater crashes, is it because theyre inexperienced? Vehicle fault? Because they were "hooning"? Someone elses fault? etc. Is there a definite way to classify these?

Obviously if its like 50% of fatal crashes involve P platers then theres an issue, but what causes these crashes? Lack of driver knowledge because of inexperience, or were they simply being reckless because theyre young and stupid?

Also; this is kinda getting off topic; see here http://ftoaustralia.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26380 to continue this convo. I feel bad for hijacking this thread

Found an extraction of research report that pretty much answers your question.
http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/r ... uction.pdf

And if you bother to read the whole report here,
http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/r ... port12.pdf

_

Stats database here, (with options to manipulate variables-age group, etc.)
http://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/safe ... abase.aspx

Post by **Bennoz** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:09 pm

There's a large tree just round the corner from my house that's been ring barked thanks to a P plater. My step son!

Fkn dickhead: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25080&p=294993&hilit=mx5#p294993

The stats don't lie!

Post by **Bennoz** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:16 pm

Daniel2019 wrote:Was getting off topic in the other thread, we kinda hijacked it

Continue here!

Deadset, you suck at computers

Let me cut & merge the threads

Kustom · Post by **Kustom** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:56 pm

Daniel2019 · Post by **Daniel2019** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:17 am

Bennoz wrote:
Daniel2019 wrote:Was getting off topic in the other thread, we kinda hijacked it

Continue here!
Deadset, you suck at computers

Let me cut & merge the threads

I only did it to try and save you from having to do it

Daniel2019 · Post by **Daniel2019** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:20 am

phunkydude wrote:
Daniel2019 wrote: Id be interested in seeing some proper statistics on this. Although its hard to determine some things. For example, if a P plater crashes, is it because theyre inexperienced? Vehicle fault? Because they were "hooning"? Someone elses fault? etc. Is there a definite way to classify these?

Obviously if its like 50% of fatal crashes involve P platers then theres an issue, but what causes these crashes? Lack of driver knowledge because of inexperience, or were they simply being reckless because theyre young and stupid?

Also; this is kinda getting off topic; see here http://ftoaustralia.com/v3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26380 to continue this convo. I feel bad for hijacking this thread
Found an extraction of research report that pretty much answers your question.
http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/r ... uction.pdf

And if you bother to read the whole report here,
http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/r ... port12.pdf

_

Stats database here, (with options to manipulate variables-age group, etc.)
http://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/safe ... abase.aspx

There we go, then. Hey Taz you were right

God damn P platers!

Post by **bjk** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:46 am

My tl;dr sense triggered before I even read the reports, but I've been looking at similar stuff recently anyways. A few things to to with video game driving and real world, thrill seeking, stress, aggression and stuff.

I wonder, given that there is a steady decline in deaths after getting ones p-plates, whether at some stage they'll just max out the independent driving age to like 25 or something.

Astron_Boy · Post by **Astron_Boy** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:49 am

bjk wrote:I wonder, given that there is a steady decline in deaths after getting ones p-plates, whether at some stage they'll just max out the independent driving age to like 25 or something.

Nope.
Government would lose a tonne of revenue if they did that.
Both from young enthusiastic P platers getting their licence, and then losing it, shortly after.
And to the insurance companies making a nice profit for the same car, same living conditions as Joe 45yr old living next door.

Fact is also, there isn't a well enough planned mass transit system to cope with the extra strain of people aged 17-25 who would normally have a licence.

In NSW with the red and green P plates, the logic is that having the speed cap, one can become better accustomed to speeds that they could cope with.
Really? 90kph in a 60kph zone perhaps...
Working as intended!
Revenue FTW.

Post by **bjk** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:07 am

Astron_Boy wrote:
bjk wrote:I wonder, given that there is a steady decline in deaths after getting ones p-plates, whether at some stage they'll just max out the independent driving age to like 25 or something.
Nope.
Government would lose a tonne of revenue if they did that.
Both from young enthusiastic P platers getting their licence, and then losing it, shortly after.
And to the insurance companies making a nice profit for the same car, same living conditions as Joe 45yr old living next door.

Fact is also, there isn't a well enough planned mass transit system to cope with the extra strain of people aged 17-25 who would normally have a licence.

In NSW with the red and green P plates, the logic is that having the speed cap, one can become better accustomed to speeds that they could cope with.
Really? 90kph in a 60kph zone perhaps...
Working as intended!
Revenue FTW.

Stupid revenue. That being said, less driver fatalities mean less burden on the hospital system. not a chance it would outweigh everything else though. maybe monitored driving as Taz suggested will eventually become an option. not the same as actual supervision, but imagine having a virtual police officer as a backseat passenger. if they could make it nonintrusive enough anyway.