200fwkw 4 cylinder NA Integra

[spetz]

This may be a valid point but you look at the bigger picture it makes more sense.
Number one the S2000 was not made with the Australian market in mind...
2, It is a "traditional" Honda thing, along with their philosophy, so it is somehow symbolic
3, There are markets where the car is taxed on it's engine capacity. So, in those markets the S2000 makes financial sense over other performance cars with more capacity

[Taz]

And the ford has more power and double the torque at a much more useable rev range. No one told Honda to use 2 litres and for a 70k car is piss poor.

It has never been...well at the risk of this turning into a nice little debate - Japans style to produce cars like ford, or really any car thats more than 3L (yes im well aware there are cars like the 350 that break this rule) they have always been great at getting performance out of small capacity 4 or 6 cylinder engines.
90% of the cars i can think of that are JDM rev to 7k +, are 4 or 6 cylinder and have variable timing or turbo's - and thats the way i like it!
I mean look at GTR, thats basically classified as Japanese muscle where as american muscle requires like 500 cubic inches of pure motor
Just saying - its not Japans style to create a ford-like car and i hope they continue not to
(that and the fact that its a farken ford so it belongs in the scrap heap regardless lmao)
And, conveniently enough - look at the FTO - which was MEANT to be specifically for Japan - perfect example

grabs popcorn and awaits all the angry replies

[SchumieFan]

And the ford has more power and double the torque at a much more useable rev range. No one told Honda to use 2 litres and for a 70k car is piss poor.

It has never been...well at the risk of this turning into a nice little debate - Japans style to produce cars like ford, or really any car thats more than 3L (yes im well aware there are cars like the 350 that break this rule) they have always been great at getting performance out of small capacity 4 or 6 cylinder engines.
90% of the cars i can think of that are JDM rev to 7k +, are 4 or 6 cylinder and have variable timing or turbo's - and thats the way i like it!
I mean look at GTR, thats basically classified as Japanese muscle where as american muscle requires like 500 cubic inches of pure motor
Just saying - its not Japans style to create a ford-like car and i hope they continue not to
(that and the fact that its a farken ford so it belongs in the scrap heap regardless lmao)
And, conveniently enough - look at the FTO - which was MEANT to be specifically for Japan - perfect example

grabs popcorn and awaits all the angry replies

here you go... free facepalm

[Bennoz]

tl;dr

[spetz]

Why facepalm?
It's not completely untrue. It is a pretty typical Japanese thing to extract lots of power from small capacity engines. Of course this is usually due to regulations (in the case of Evo, WRX etc) and in my opinion taking into account the car tax system in many countries

[Taz]

I can definitely see where the facepalm comes from as there is a lot of holes in what i said but then again, like spetz said its not really a fact but more of a typical thing to do - as in MOST cars that people refer to as Japanese like the WRX and the EVO, s2000 etc etc are all small displacement engines and produce rightfully more hp than they should compared to what other countries get out of them - stereotypical more than anything.
Just got to take a look at the big picture, Aussies are for their v8's n fords n sh*t, america is for their big blocks and japan is for their small displacement turbo machines.

[payaya]

This may be a valid point but you look at the bigger picture it makes more sense.
Number one the S2000 was not made with the Australian market in mind...
2, It is a "traditional" Honda thing, along with their philosophy, so it is somehow symbolic
3, There are markets where the car is taxed on it's engine capacity. So, in those markets the S2000 makes financial sense over other performance cars with more capacity

Point taken but when someone states the Honda makes the most power per litre NA and think its great it drives me insane! For example a lot of hot hatches these days produce poke than the S2000 motor. Maybe as you said S2000 doesn't belong in this country but Nissan do a 3.7 litre in the 370Z and it just makes more sense. If Honda wan't to keep their low CC motors then be ready to be criticised.

If you want power from a small CC motor turbo it. It's like saying I am the fastest runner in the work with thongs on (S2000). No one is forcing ya to wear thongs, as you choose to do so!

Anyway the S2000 motor is not the highest HP per L engine motor any more anyway. Honda's line-up is crap these days anyway.

[spetz]

Everyone has a different interpretation and enjoys different things.
Personally I like Honda and I like how an atmo 4 banger can be so fast.

Would I personally buy a Honda and spend so much money on modifying it? No, but I can definitely see the appeal.
But that money can buy better and more desirable cars. I do not see how someone can buy a Civic for as much as an S15 or Evo 6 is worth. Yes, a K powered Civic is fast, fun, impressive, but really it's just a FWD Civic.
If they were substantially cheaper then it would make a lot of sense but I guess people get carried away

[payaya]

Why you wan't more capacity then? Not the Japanese way??

http://www.performanceforums.com/forums ... brid-MIVEC

Timing belt is the least of your issues btw.

[spetz]

With that car I have modified it when I was younger and I didn't know what money was so I never felt bad about throwing it into an econocar.
Anyway I never said it was my preference or the only thing that would please me, rather that I do find appeal in small capacity motors.

What would you say are my other concerns in building that motor?

[Nacho]

Interesting debate. Well these are the figures to beat:

Highest specific engine output (power/unit displacement)

Petrol/Gasoline (naturally aspirated) piston engine - 118.81 kW (161.5 PS; 159.3 hp) per litre - 2009 Caparo T1 415.35 kW (565 PS; 557 hp) 3.496 L [6]

Petrol/Gasoline (forced-induction) piston engine - 151.3 kW (206 PS; 203 hp) per litre - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution FQ-400 302.15 kW (411 PS; 405 hp) 1.997 L I4[7]

I always knew the EVO would take out the forced induction figure.....and that's out of the factory.

[fraz91]

Interesting debate. Well these are the figures to beat:

Highest specific engine output (power/unit displacement)

Petrol/Gasoline (naturally aspirated) piston engine - 118.81 kW (161.5 PS; 159.3 hp) per litre - 2009 Caparo T1 415.35 kW (565 PS; 557 hp) 3.496 L [6]

Petrol/Gasoline (forced-induction) piston engine - 151.3 kW (206 PS; 203 hp) per litre - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution FQ-400 302.15 kW (411 PS; 405 hp) 1.997 L I4[7]

I always knew the EVO would take out the forced induction figure.....and that's out of the factory.

Yes, but the Evo FQ400 also has the WORST fuel economy when driven hard, straight out of the factory (would probably rival yours bennoz )

I'm all for screaming 4-bangers that rev their tits off and have the valves dancing on the bonnets, but if you combine that with the extra capacity of a V8 (as the euro's do) then you're onto something really smart. Besides, gimme a 5.0L supercharged V8 over a 1.6L Turbo 4 any day

Also, just to throw a spanner in the works, what about Toyota's engines. Japanese built, but they go for a larger engine to make more power. Just look at the Camry's and Aurions. 200kW from a 3.5L V6 is mildly impressive, but it's tuned very conservatively. The TRD Aurion only ever made 240-odd kW in stock form which, for a supercharged V6, is pretty sad...

[Taz]

Half the reason they dont turbocharge the bigger capacity engines is that its either pointless as it wont do much, or it is pointless as it doesnt need it.
I think half the reason is that displacement isnt a big factor for boost compared to the weight saved by not having an extra 4 cylinders.
As they say - A kilogram out is better than a horsepower in.
Either way it isnt common and has no effect on the market. That and have you tried fitting a big ass turbo under a v8 bonnet, there is f**k all room as it is down there =S

[phunkydude]

Also, just to throw a spanner in the works, what about Toyota's engines. Japanese built, but they go for a larger engine to make more power. Just look at the Camry's and Aurions. 200kW from a 3.5L V6 is mildly impressive, but it's tuned very conservatively. The TRD Aurion only ever made 240-odd kW in stock form which, for a supercharged V6, is pretty sad...

They had some pretty good small 4-bangers NA engines in the past.
Shame they dropped it and not continuing the trend just like the honda except the glorious k20a.

1) 4A-GE 20v blacktop - 165bhp from 1.6litres engine in AE111

2) 2ZZ-GE - 190bhp from 1.8litres engine in Celica gts / lotus elise&exige.

3) 3S-GE dual vvti - 210bhp from 2.0litres engine in Altezza RS200.

[payaya]

Half the reason they dont turbocharge the bigger capacity engines is that its either pointless as it wont do much, or it is pointless as it doesnt need it.
I think half the reason is that displacement isnt a big factor for boost compared to the weight saved by not having an extra 4 cylinders.
As they say - A kilogram out is better than a horsepower in.
Either way it isnt common and has no effect on the market. That and have you tried fitting a big ass turbo under a v8 bonnet, there is f**k all room as it is down there =S

Um most are going forced induction for larger motors. Why? It's better on fuel.

All are going forced induction for larger motors! It's more of a fuel and co2 thing.