Unique: New CAMS MIVEC and NON-MIVEC

Post by **smorison** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:46 am

ruchi wrote:While it would be possible to use these cams with a turbo, given the agressive nature of the new cams I think you'd be better off using the normal cams with a turbo.

its hard to say... uprated cams on forced induction has proven great results for other cars... only testing will answer this though

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:05 am

I'm sure it will have great results in terms of performance what I question is the drivability of the car. If you want hard core power then the combo would be good, but if you want something which is still very drivable then I would question the combo.

Chiangstar · Post by **Chiangstar** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:16 am

FTOluv wrote:Steve, if u bring out these CAMS around 1.5K i dont think i can ever sell my car!!

dont forget that you'll need a programmable ECU to go with it....so its not a cheap mod

simon

efteoh · Post by **efteoh** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:36 am

Chiangstar wrote:
FTOluv wrote:Steve, if u bring out these CAMS around 1.5K i dont think i can ever sell my car!!

dont forget that you'll need a programmable ECU to go with it....so its not a cheap mod

simon

oh no, programable ecu

but i thought the FTO ecu can make small adjustments (air flow, timeing etc) it self anyway.

can some one please clarify?

thanks

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:39 am

adjusting the rate at which the valves open and close and the duartion they are open is by no means a "small adjustment".

Post by **smorison** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:15 am

ruchi wrote:If you want hard core power then the combo would be good, but if you want something which is still very drivable then I would question the combo.

that's why my girlfriend drives a mazda3

er actually that's why i drive my girlfriends mazda3 so much

mazda3 = quiet / comfortable and nice power as standard

my fto =
rock hard suspension
noisy
very finely tuned turn in ... (can be a bit twitchy on sh*tty roads)....
eventually it won't be a daily driver...

When it comes to tuning the engine for the new CAMS we still need to work on it ... i have a VAFC sitting here which will have to go in... a SAFC would do ok however i like the ability to modify CAM changeover which is where the VAFC comes in...

if you are seriously considering the CAMS mod you should have already done:
intake
exhaust
Throttle body (in development)
new intake plennum (in development)

if you've done these then you'll already have pretty much as much power as your going to get before you crack the engine open...

AFC's should already have been done or done as part of the CAMS upgrade....

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:33 am

smorison wrote:new intake plennum (in development)

Getting slightly off topic, is this just a re-design of the air filter box and CAI piping, as the current one should have a minor plenum effect.

Post by **smorison** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:04 pm

ruchi wrote:
smorison wrote:new intake plennum (in development)
Getting slightly off topic, is this just a re-design of the air filter box and CAI piping, as the current one should have a minor plenum effect.

i haven't seen it yet so i don't know what mods ... but the plennum is post Throttle body ... i know they've done flow benching testing before and after but not sure about gains as it hasn't been put on a car just yet...

I'm actually starting to get concerned about injector Duty Cycles...

RallyMad · Post by **RallyMad** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:24 pm

Just a quick question I was thinking about. In this early part of planning what would be included in the cost of the upgrade? Probably a better question would be what would need to be replaced along with the cams? I was thinking would springs, lifters, etc. Need to be replaced as well, maybe upgraded? I've been told by an engineering mate that when you change CAMS you should always change the lobes and lifters because like pads with your brakes they will settle into deviations in the CAM? Is this true? SOund like a great future for modifiy the fantastic FTO though. Glad I'm getting into it over the last few years? Good work everyone

Post by **smorison** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:33 pm

the current answer is we don't know...

i guess if your cams are pitted really badly then there may be a case to replace other parts of the engine...

We haven't done this before to a MIVEC so its a learn as you go process (on my car)... time will tell what has to be done

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:55 pm

what happened to robs car ?? howcome he is getting a nu engine ?

Post by **smorison** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:51 am

G_A_V wrote:what happened to robs car ?? howcome he is getting a nu engine ?

cheaper to replace than repair... rob can tell the full story

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:19 pm

Have the Mivec cams, been sent off for the manufacturer to look at, I have been told that it is very hard to create a smooth change over between both cams, as you loose momentum as the came are switching from low to high. (Which will create a jolt)

Have they looked into this yet, do they have a game plan yet?

Post by **smorison** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:11 pm

Black_FTOGPX wrote:Have the Mivec cams, been sent off for the manufacturer to look at, I have been told that it is very hard to create a smooth change over between both cams, as you loose momentum as the came are switching from low to high. (Which will create a jolt)

Have they looked into this yet, do they have a game plan yet?

no not yet they're on their way to me from the UK at the moment...

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:44 pm

Have they got the MIVEC cams yet?

Post by **smorison** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:39 pm

probably next week... which sucks cause it means they won't be ready for our track day....

akuma3 · Post by **akuma3** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:30 pm

so is that mean the MIVEC cams are gonna be harder to made or to gain a different? i remember another section talks about 2 different cams that will either increase torque or increase high end rev

i just hope the cams make a huge differences lol

GWIDO · Post by **GWIDO** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:22 pm

ok the fto needs 4 cams like byt does mivec actually make a difference to them. We have a low cam and a high cam don't we? and so it is just the way they are ground (profile duration etc) that will be different. when mivec kicks in the cam you are using changes, basically is this right?
so mivec cams should not be much more expensive to produce than normal ones, except the cost of r+d?

as for replacing other components, well i guess that depends on the final lift and duration, but i would reckon stronger valve springs would be the go so they can still keep up, but then you gotta knock the head off to do it....

sounds like a serious mod.

I'm keen, well will be when i do the reuild for nos...

MADFTO · Post by **MADFTO** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:52 pm

I don't know if you've got the workings of the cams right in your mind Gwido.

You're correct in saying that FTO has four cams but there isn't such a thing as a MIVEC Cam.

Both intake and exhaust camshafts have two sets of lobes for each cylinder that the camshaft runs over.

Now I'm not sure exactly how MIVEC achieves this, but I'm guessing it's an oil filled solenoid that moves/locks a secondary cam follower to the lifter? I haven't read up exactly what systems MIVEC uses, I only know how VTEC YO!!!!! (not i-VTEC YO!!!!!) works.

The following is an interpretation of what is happening in my mind, I haven't actually been game enough to pull about the valve train gear when my mechanic had my heads off to adjust the tappets =)

Anyways, low speed (or "normal") profile cam lobes should be running directly over the lifters whilst the high-speed (MIVEC) cam lobes are running in a gap with a follower that is linked to the lifter by a solenoid. The MIVEC lobes would only come into effect when the MIVEC solenoid is activated and the MIVEC followers are linked to the lifters.

So in effect, a camshaft grinder has two sets of lobes to grind on each camshaft, the camshafts alone would cost more, but it would take double the time to grind as well. (Thank god for robotics) =)

And honestly, if you were replacing all the camshafts, you should replace all valvetrain running gear, unless you know eith that the components are relatively new and they suit the application.

StevieG · Post by **StevieG** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:15 pm

Hello!!

How are you all! Some interesting reading here!

Is there any possiblity of the new cams, plenum & throttle body replacement / upgrades to be shipped to the UK when they are ready?