Wcefan's FTO - Sparky's Woes

[wcefan]

Hi All,

So I've had some pretty bad luck with my FTO in the last year.

Compressor blew up just before Summer last year and caused metal parts to go up through my aircon system meaning I have to replace most of the system (I can post up a pic of the blown compressor if someone requests). The Clutch plate also seized up on the compressor which made for bright sparks flying out the back of my car at night (doing 120) on a long trip down south for holidays (Sounds cool.... it wasn't at the time). This earning it the name 'Sparky'.

Suspension (springs and bushes) screwed itself slowly over the previous 5 months before May, when I replaced them (Brand new KYB Shocks, Lovell Springs, New Bushes All Round, Lower Front Strut Bar addition).. My Steering Rack also managed to screw itself around the same time, so I got Pedders to replace that for me as well. It now handles awesomely though!!

Around the same time as the suspension was being done I also replaced all the rotors with RDA Slotted rotors and also got EBC Green pads for the front and EBC Black for the rear.

And recently my engine started leaking oil and coolant. Took it into RPW and another Mechanic, and they both said that it looks like the engine seals and gaskets will need to be replaced.

Anyway, I decided to go ahead and get those leaks fixed but also do a number of upgrades whilst the engine was out of the car. Such as Clutch, Lightened Flywheel, Extractors, Timing Belt, etc. Got quoted ~$3.3k for everything including labour. Took it in to RPW and left it for a week and a bit. Got a few calls during the week advising they've found a few other things that should be replaced (engine mounts, Radiator). Went to pick up my car, checked the invoice.... $5.5k!! I wasn't too concerned about the price in the end after David (RPW) went through it all with me.. Essentially it was like a new engine. So I took it and drove it for a while.. and it now goes awesome! Everything is just soo much better after getting all this work done. I've compiled a list of what got done below this post.

300km later on my way to work this Monday, cruising on the freeway (doing about 80), my car starts jumping around and loosing power. Engine light comes on and I *FN* burst out with rage (clearly a bad start to the week). The car still drove, just hopped around and the engine cut out every now and then... I was only 2 km from work, so the FTO soldiered on. Got to work and called RPW straight away and let them know what had happened. They asked me to drive it in so they could check it out. Luckily for me, RPW is less then 1km from where I work. Jumped in the car and drove there. On the way, the engine light turned off and the car stopped doing the hopscotch it had been playing earlier. RPW had a quick look at it (of course without and engine light coming on, you aren't going to get a diag code from the ECU). They asked me to keep driving till it happened again. So I left, turned the corner and BAM Engine Light comes on and it's time to play HopScotch again apparently. Took it back to RPW and kept the engine running. They ran diag scan tool on the ECU and it came back with a failed 'Crank something something sensor' and also a failed 'Top something sensor'. I left the car with them.

I called back up today to see what's going on and they advised that they had replaced the 'Crank something sensor' cable and had it on testing. Anywho, it no longer can hold idle and the engine cuts out frequently. Apparently tomorrow's step is to replace the ECU and see how that goes.......... FML

If any of you guys have experienced similar issues as described above, can you please let me know. And what fixed it.

Cheers,
Cameron (wcefan)

PS: that parts/labour list for the $5.5k overhaul is below


PARTS
2x ROCKER COVER GASKET 6A12
1x TIMING BELT HYDRAULIC TENSIONER
1x TIMING BELT STANDARD
1x TIMING BELT IDLER PULLEY
1x TIMING BELT IDLER PULLEY
1x WATERPUMP ASSY
1x FLYWHEEL CHROMOLY 5.2KG 7 BOLT
7x FLYWHEEL BOLT 11X28.5MM
6x SPARK PLUG NGK STANDARD
1x EXTRACTOR SYSTEM 6A12 3-1
1x RADIATOR ASSY FTO DE3A MANUEL
4x NOK CAMSHAFT SEALS GENUINE
1x NOK REAR MAIN OIL SEAL
1x NOK TIMING COVER SEAL
5x ADJUSTER SCREWS MITSUBISHI FTO
1x O RING 15.9MM
1x FUEL FILTER
1x OIL FILTER
1x INPUT SHAFT SEAL
2x ENGINE MOUNT POLYURETHANE

VARIOUS 2ND HAND COMPONENTS
- Water Bypass Housing
- Radaitor Cap Housing
- Air conditioning idler pulley
- Alternator tensioner pulley
- Camshaft Bolts

4L GEARBOX OIL
4L SL ENGINE OIL 15W40
4L DISTILLED WATER
4L TITAN COOLANT 33% GLYCOL
2L DEGREASER CLEANING FLUID

LABOUR
LABOUR 15/8/11 - 1.25 hours
1. Drain engine coolant and place vehicle onto the hoist
2. Remove bonnet and drain coolant

LABOUR 16/8/11 - 2.50 hours
1. Remove engine and gearbox after draining remaning fluids

LABOUR 17/8/11 - 6.50 hours
1. High pressure clean external engien block and gearbox
2. Take vehicle off hoist, degrease down engine bay and flush heater core
3. Place vehicle back onto hoist
4. Strip engine covers and ascertain oil leaks
5. Remove waterpump and rear bank mivec cylinder head
6. Clean and reseal with new D Blocks
7. R&R tappet adjuster, clean oil afected areas
8. Replace timing cover seal
9. Remove flywheel and clutch
10. Replace input shaft seal
11. Wash inside of gearbox
12. Remove and source 2nd hand thermostat housings
13. Remove seized bolts from camshaft gears

LABOUR 18/8/11 - 1.75 hours
1. Fit new flywheel and clutch
2. Fit new thrust bearing
3. Clean mivec section of cylinder head

LABOUR 19/8/11 - 6.50 hours
1. Clean balance of mivec section and fit to cylinder head with new swivel tip adjusters.
2. Seal and mount permanently
3. Fit new D blocks
4. Remove spark plugs
5. Remove Front bank rocker cover, clean surfaces
6. Fit Gearbox to engine
7. Clean and pain parts
8. Replace rocker cover gasket and spark plug seals
9. Fit Extractor headers
10. Fit timing belt and time engine up
11. Adjust tappets on rear bank
12. Fit balance of items and begin fitment back into engine bay

LABOUR 20/8/11 - 1.75 hours
1. Complete engine fitment into engine bay
2. Fill with gearbox and engine oil
3. Run vehicle and do quick check

LABOUR 23/8/11 - 1.50 hours
1. Fit up balance of exhaust Y PIpe
2. Hot run vehicle and test for coolant leaks
3. Test drive vehicle
4. Modify alarm - jamming on accelerator bracket

[wcefan]

Alright.... So today RPW replaced the ECU with another second hand one which they had spare. It drove perfectly fine on the way home. Went to go out and get some fuel just then annnndddd same hopping story as before... *sighs

[I8A4RE]

Tl;dr: ???

Oh and using rpw is your first problem.

[wcefan]

Tl;dr: ???

Oh and using rpw is your first problem.

Yeh, it is a bit long isn't it. Essentially the problem I'm having atm is that the car is intermittently jumping (revs bouncing up and down) and the engine (on occasion) will cut out.

after replacing the ECU and Knock sensor, I drove all the way home today with no problems... but later on when i went to go get some fuel, same issue came back up.

I went to RPW because they've working on FTO's before and they are very close to where I work.

[I8A4RE]

Normally would assume the mechanic has checked error codes but we are talking about them. So have error codes been checked? Have you looked at the stepper motor? Is this doing it when hot cold both? Outside?

Without knowing any further info I am thinking either stepper or MAF. But there are heaps of possible things from fuel filter to o2 sensors.

Answer above and we can go from there.

[wcefan]

Normally would assume the mechanic has checked error codes but we are talking about them. So have error codes been checked? Have you looked at the stepper motor? Is this doing it when hot cold both? Outside?

Without knowing any further info I am thinking either stepper or MAF. But there are heaps of possible things from fuel filter to o2 sensors.

Answer above and we can go from there.

Yeh they plugged in their fancy scanner and pulled out 2 error codes. One for the crank sensor and the other, camshaft sensor. They replaced the crank sensor and ECU.. No joy.

Not sure if they've looked at the stepper motor. But it is doing it both when the engine is cold and hot.

They are sure that the issue isn't fuel related. The fuel filter was replaced last week anyway when I did my big engine bay upgrade/fix.

Just called them back up today, and they have no idea atm. Are going to think about it and call me back

[Rob Furniss]

Sorry to hear of your problems wcefan.

Just to throw a suggestion in - can you have a look at the cable to your throttle position sensor and see if it's loose or the wires are stretched?
You could even unplug the cable and then plug it back in and see how you go, nothing to lose.
I've had random error codes pop up before due to this and had kangarooing when I messed about with the position of it with the adjuster bolts (don't do that unless you know how to put it back to where it's set now).

Good luck

[wcefan]

Sorry to hear of your problems wcefan.

Just to throw a suggestion in - can you have a look at the cable to your throttle position sensor and see if it's loose or the wires are stretched?
You could even unplug the cable and then plug it back in and see how you go, nothing to lose.
I've had random error codes pop up before due to this and had kangarooing when I messed about with the position of it with the adjuster bolts (don't do that unless you know how to put it back to where it's set now).

Good luck

I'll check that out when I get home tonight. Good suggestion, thanks Rob

[wcefan]

Alright guys, an update.. It's still doing the same thing and RPW still have no idea.

Here's a vid of exactly what its doing. This is in neutral with my foot held at 2k rpm. I don't move my foot down or up at all.



What do you think??

[aza013]

They changed all the parts but did not change out the stepper motor .

[Rob Furniss]

What happens if you disconnect the stepper, does it hold the revs?

[wcefan]

I did read about the stepper motor today.. I'm going to disconnect and clean out the stepper motor tomorrow and see how that goes.

Cheers guys.. will let you know how it goes.

[I8A4RE]

If you disconnect your stepper motor and there is no change it is very likely that it is your stepper motor that is causing the issue. Good luck mate let us know how you get on.

[wcefan]

If you disconnect your stepper motor and there is no change it is very likely that it is your stepper motor that is causing the issue. Good luck mate let us know how you get on.

Alright I disconnected the stepper motor and it still does exactly the same thing. You guys reckon replace the stepper motor as a next step?

Cheers.

[Rob Furniss]

No.
Stepper winds in or out and letting more/less air in which affects the revs (ecu tells it to do this depending on load).
If you've got it disconnected and the revs are still going up and down then I would say you've ruled it out but I may be wrong, you could remove it and try a continuity test on it with a multimeter.
Check your vac pipes for splits.
Knackered or incorrectly set throttle position sensor could also be the cause, this should could up in a diagnostic test though.
Really, I would have expected RPW to be sorting this no matter what the issue is.

Where abouts do you live?

[wcefan]

No.
Stepper winds in or out and letting more/less air in which affects the revs (ecu tells it to do this depending on load).
If you've got it disconnected and the revs are still going up and down then I would say you've ruled it out but I may be wrong, you could remove it and try a continuity test on it with a multimeter.
Check your vac pipes for splits.
Knackered or incorrectly set throttle position sensor could also be the cause, this should could up in a diagnostic test though.
Really, I would have expected RPW to be sorting this no matter what the issue is.

Where abouts do you live?

I live in Huntingdale.. Yeh it's kinda hard to drive a car all the way to Osborne Park when it's dropping revs like this. I do plan on calling them up next week and if they have no answer for me or I haven't fixed it by then; yelling at them until they pick it up and fix the damn issue. Question: Is it fair to not pay to get this fixed considering the issue wasn't there when I originally took it in to them?

Luckily work have a spare car that I can drive in the meantime.

[Rob Furniss]

Well they've had the intake plenum off to do the rocker gaskets at the least so could have disturbed something or it could be coincidence.
The thing is it drove ok for 300km after picking it up so you could have been really unlucky and some sensor has gone just at the wrong time. (have you run a check yourself yet to get the error codes out?)

Do you have this issue all the time?

[Kustom]

I would assume if its related to somethng they've done, they should fix it. If not, then you should cover it.

[aza013]

It could also be a vacuum line not on as well.

[wcefan]

Well they've had the intake plenum off to do the rocker gaskets at the least so could have disturbed something or it could be coincidence.
The thing is it drove ok for 300km after picking it up so you could have been really unlucky and some sensor has gone just at the wrong time. (have you run a check yourself yet to get the error codes out?)

Do you have this issue all the time?

The used to be intermittent, but now it's happening all the time. How do I check the error codes myself? RPW ran their diag tool and it came back with "crank knock sensor" to which they already replaced.. I don't know if they re-ran the diag tool after replacing that sensor though

It could also be a vacuum line not on as well.

I've checked a few of the vacuum lines, seemed alright but my mechanical knowledge is limited in that regards. Where/which ones do you recommend I check?