limp mode with a twist :s

[millsy]

hey, yes another limp mode dilema for me, i was driving with the small spare tyre on yesturday, turning a corner at about 20, it reved hard n went to limp mode.

last time i had limp mode it was due to my paddle shifters shorting and blew a fuse (i have done many electrical mods on my car, so i assume something else shorted as the car has ben driving nicely all day, as opposed to something stuffing up as soon as i turn the car on)

anyway, no fuses blown, and auto mode starts and stays in 1st gear, until it redlines then clunks into 3rd and netral flashes, limp mode (note, every time i turn the car off then on it starts in 1st and then clunks into 3rd and limpmode). but in semi-auto mode,i can change up from 1st to 2nd (but not 2nd to 1st) and then 2nd to 3rd (which then triggers limp mode, altho in limp mode i can change down to 2nd and back to 3rd in manual mode)

diagnostics, 3 different things apparently, check engine=62, intake air control valve position sensor (seems fine, car's throttle response is same as usual, same acceleration in 2nd n 3rd)

abs=14, rear left wheel speed sensor open circuit

tranny (flashing N) =23, output shaft speed sensor open/closed circuit

any idea's? i dont think all 3 problems would have happened all at once with no stranious driving, i would have thought its much more likely to be electrical or only ONE thing wrong, i will change the tranny oil tomoro, but what else can i do to rule out everything (disconnected all electrical mods ive done, i recon i can rule out anything i have done electronically). might give the sensors a clean, can someone give me a detailed location of the input/output (tried reading the discription in the last limp mode thread, i still cant find the exact plugs, 5speed gpvr).

thanks folks

[I8A4RE]

last time i had limp mode it was due to my paddle shifters shorting and blew a fuse i have done many electrical mods on my car.

Sorry man, that is why I can t help. It just throws to many spanners in the works and without seeing the car it is just too hard, good luck.

[Supplanter]

Disconnect the battery to reset the Tip ECU and Engine ECU, and see what errors come back.

[Storm]

Disconnect the battery to reset the Tip ECU and Engine ECU, and see what errors come back.

Give it ten seconds and the codes will clear, you might find it stops the limp mode as codes usually need triggered a few times before it goes fully into limp mode.

The g/box sensor is the one throwing it into limp mode. The others are just a coincidence but will need looked at.

Bill

[millsy]

okay, sorta sussed out stuff,, dont think it has anything to do with something i've done, (shorting mods or whatever), isomething gearbox related, just took it for a drive, in auto mode it stays in 1st gear and cant get out of it until it redlines for a second, then fires into limp mode with a big bang (note, car starts and reverses and gets from park to 1st and reverse with no cluncks)

and in tip mode, i can go from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 1st, but when i go from 2nd to 3rd it cluncks into 3rd and goes into limp mode, but even in limp mode i can select back down to 2nd (only) and 2nd to 3rd, i noticed that it cluncks hard into 3rd from 2nd, but from 3rd to 2nd its smooth

and by the way, absolutly everything is working great, checked all electrical, park is smooth into reverse and into drive, 1st to 2nd is good, all dials's working, no loss of power in 1st 2nd or 3rd (so can rule out the system diagnostic result of a faulty throtle pos sensor). i feel its something MECHANICAL in the gear box, or a sensor or some electrical signal GOING to the gearbox.

basically, i want to know if anyone has had these probs, sound familiar? someone had this weird-ish limp mode? main causes (besides the obvious, oil change for box, sensors stuffed or dirty, torque converter). like is the gearbox overheating? stuff like that.

and how do i check the input/output sensors? il clean them, and il do a resistance check, anyone got any voltage/resistance (or any other electrical stats) on the sensors so i can compare?

thanks guuys, good job so far

[Storm]

What you have described is exactly what was happening to mine before the torque convertor failed.

Basically the change between 2nd & 3rd was really harsh and if I tried to change up over about 3.5K rpm it would redline then hammer into gear - but not so hard that it threw it into limp mode. It also had a really harsh drop from 3rd to 2nd IIRC.

My torque convertor eventually went bang - big style - and I had no drive. Gearbox could go 1st, 2nd in tip mode but with the TC not connecting it to the engine it did nothing else.

Sounds to me yours is going as well. And mine didn't have brown auto fluid or anything like that.

Bill

[millsy]

beautiful, thats exactly what i want to hear, how did you fix it? (as in did you buy a new torque converter and install it yourself or take it to a tranny joint?)

im pretty handy in the workshop, so has anyone bought a torque converter and installed themselves, coz i know how much mechanics love to get paid by the hour and make a 2 hour job an 8 hour one. il have a look at a few sensors and change the tranny oil 1st up though.

but did you do a diagnostics test? anything like mine? i sorta had a feeling to ignore the tests, as i should have my last limp mode

but basically, i have closure now, your a lifesaver mate (i hope)

[Storm]

beautiful, thats exactly what i want to hear, how did you fix it? (as in did you buy a new torque converter and install it yourself or take it to a tranny joint?)

im pretty handy in the workshop, so has anyone bought a torque converter and installed themselves, coz i know how much mechanics love to get paid by the hour and make a 2 hour job an 8 hour one. il have a look at a few sensors and change the tranny oil 1st up though.

but did you do a diagnostics test? anything like mine? i sorta had a feeling to ignore the tests, as i should have my last limp mode

but basically, i have closure now, your a lifesaver mate (i hope)

I hope so to milsy! The TC has no sensors attached to it so there is no error code to read from it. It's just a mechanical device.

I stripped out my gearbox but didn't bother dropping it right out from the car. It can seperate from the engine and tipped down enough to slide the TC of the splines. Another one can be slipped on and then fitted up again. I did it on my own in about 4-5 hours IIRC.

I'll see if I still have a write up of how I did it for ya.

Bill

[Storm]

Removing your gear box

Here you go millsy, this is the one I did for the UK FTOOC

I’ve done this a couple of times now so thought I’d write it up with the bits you find difficult the first time in mind. But still read the manual pages on it before hand. I print out the relevant pages and keep them to hand as it give you all of the torque settings etc. It’s pages 23-68 to 23-72

First of all, it’s not actually that difficult and you don’t need to remove the engine either! But make sure you have all of the tools to hand or you become stuck at certain points. The following are the tools you will need.

Trolley jack
Axle stands X 3 (one for holding up engine)
Decent socket set
Torque wrench
Deep 17mm socket for gearbox mount
24mm socket or ring spanner for drain plug
Ball joint splitter, scissor type preferably but access is limited so check prior to buying one! If you’re using a fork type one be very careful, splitting the protective rubber on the ball joint means buying a new boot for it, although they are not expensive!
Long lever for the very tight bolts and to lock hub for loosening driveshaft nut
Pry bar for removing the drive shafts (or chisel and careful hand!)
New split pins for track rod end and driveshaft
Bucket for gear box fluid and new fluid

The higher you can get the car up on the axle stands the better your access is. I put the axle stands along the chassis rails where the jacking points are anyway. This gives unrestricted access to the front of the car. Loosen the wheels before jacking up the car. Obvious, but I forgot and a simple job became a real pain!

Drain the box by loosening the drain plug on the outer left hand side of the box.

Next remove the battery and its tray from the engine bay along with your induction kit/air box. This should give you clear access to the top of the gear box. Now is a good time to remove all of the connections to the sensors and the pipes to the ATF cooler. You can mark them but they’re pretty obvious where each one goes back to. Mine is a tip box so I also disconnected the gear change mechanism at this time. Obviously if you have a manual you disconnect the clutch now.

You need to remove the exhaust down pipes to get at the underside of the engine/box. This is simple but I would recommend removing them from the CAT side first. This puts the least strain on the flexi joint. I didn’t and had to get my flexi cut out and replaced as it started to blow after I reconnected everything. Down pipe to outlet manifold is another two 19mm bolts at each side accessed using a socket with an extension bar.

So far so good, everything is disconnected and you can see what you’re doing. Well, almost everything. You now need to remove the starter motor which is a simple job of disconnecting it and unbolting it. Once you’ve done this remove the oil filter drip tray as it gives you much better access.

Now, the manual tells you to remove the passenger side driveshaft and states that the drivers’ side one can be moved out of the way. If you have the kit to remove the both of them easily I strongly recommend that you do. Trying to get the drivers one into a position where you can get the box out without it being fouled is harder than trying to work the new washing machine!! It just isn’t worth the hassle when you can remove them in a couple of minutes.
I used a chisel to remove the drive shafts from the transmission casing. Don’t hammer it in the way as this will damage the seals on the inside. Instead use it like a lever but in order to get enough leverage I had to hit it with a hammer but I hit it SIDEWAYS. This is where a decent pry bar would have helped.
When undoing the driveshaft nuts you need to lock the hub up, I used a long (5 feet) crowbar and just locked it between the wheel studs and the ground. The drive shaft nut will be tight!
Next undo the ball joint nut and split the ball joint and also split the track rod end ball joint. I removed the bottom bolt holding the hub to the suspension and loosened the top so I could just pivot things out of the way. This allowed me to remove the shaft without to much trouble.

With them out of the way the next thing to do it to remove the mounting section which runs under the engine. Two bolts front and back and a long bolt through each mount. This should come off quite easily and you can now get at the gearbox/engine bolts. This is where the third axle stand comes in. Using a block of wood to protect the sump, use the stand to support the engine as solidly as possible. When you remove the gear box the stand and the remaining engine mount will hold it in place. Now place your trolley jack under the box as you’ll be removing this next.

Okay, we’re winning. Now you need to undo the gear box top mount from the top chassis rail. This is where the deep socket comes into play as neither my sockets nor my ring spanner cold get to the nuts. You need to remove the bolt through the mount and the bolts on to the gear box itself. It won’t come of yet but it will soon.

Back under the car there is a small plate between the engine and box. It is held by two small bolts on the underside of the engine and by three bolts holding it to the gear box. Remove this, I didn’t the first time and cut my hands to bits trying to get access!

On a tip you now need to disconnect the drive plate from the torque converter. There are four bolts which have a very thin head to get a hold of and will be quite tight. Well, they do transmit 200BHP! Using a socket on the crankshaft pulley you can turn the engine to where you need it and undo these bolts, using the crankshaft pulley to give you leverage.

Next loosen the upper gearbox/engine bolts. Once you have them all loosened, remove them ensuring you have the gear box supported. These are different lengths so make sure you know which goes where. It was a good game trying to get them all back in the right place but after all this you don’t need it. Now the gear box should slide away from the engine. Make sure your torque converter is pushed firmly into the gearbox side! The gear box might need a bit of jiggling to get it into position but it only needs to go about half an inch before it can be dropped out. The top mount can need a bit of jiggling as well but patience is the key now.

Now it should drop down quite easily and hopefully the engine will sit nicely on its remaining mount and the axle stand. If you let the box tip backwards you will get ATF leaking from the drive shaft mounts onto your garage floor, there will be some no matter how well you drained it. I had some leak and had to lie in it to finish the job. Result, burnt back due to reaction to fluid.

As they say in all of the best books, re-fitting is the reverse of this procedure.

All of the torque settings can be found in the manual on the pages I have given.

I think that’s everything but if you have problems PM me and if you’re in central Scotland and fancy a few beers I might even come and give you a hand.

Storm

[I8A4RE]

Removing your gear box

Here you go millsy, this is the one I did for the UK FTOOC

I’ve done this a couple of times now so thought I’d write it up with the bits you find difficult the first time in mind. But still read the manual pages on it before hand. I print out the relevant pages and keep them to hand as it give you all of the torque settings etc. It’s pages 23-68 to 23-72

First of all, it’s not actually that difficult and you don’t need to remove the engine either! But make sure you have all of the tools to hand or you become stuck at certain points. The following are the tools you will need.

Trolley jack
Axle stands X 3 (one for holding up engine)
Decent socket set
Torque wrench
Deep 17mm socket for gearbox mount
24mm socket or ring spanner for drain plug
Ball joint splitter, scissor type preferably but access is limited so check prior to buying one! If you’re using a fork type one be very careful, splitting the protective rubber on the ball joint means buying a new boot for it, although they are not expensive!
Long lever for the very tight bolts and to lock hub for loosening driveshaft nut
Pry bar for removing the drive shafts (or chisel and careful hand!)
New split pins for track rod end and driveshaft
Bucket for gear box fluid and new fluid

The higher you can get the car up on the axle stands the better your access is. I put the axle stands along the chassis rails where the jacking points are anyway. This gives unrestricted access to the front of the car. Loosen the wheels before jacking up the car. Obvious, but I forgot and a simple job became a real pain!

Drain the box by loosening the drain plug on the outer left hand side of the box.

Next remove the battery and its tray from the engine bay along with your induction kit/air box. This should give you clear access to the top of the gear box. Now is a good time to remove all of the connections to the sensors and the pipes to the ATF cooler. You can mark them but they’re pretty obvious where each one goes back to. Mine is a tip box so I also disconnected the gear change mechanism at this time. Obviously if you have a manual you disconnect the clutch now.

You need to remove the exhaust down pipes to get at the underside of the engine/box. This is simple but I would recommend removing them from the CAT side first. This puts the least strain on the flexi joint. I didn’t and had to get my flexi cut out and replaced as it started to blow after I reconnected everything. Down pipe to outlet manifold is another two 19mm bolts at each side accessed using a socket with an extension bar.

So far so good, everything is disconnected and you can see what you’re doing. Well, almost everything. You now need to remove the starter motor which is a simple job of disconnecting it and unbolting it. Once you’ve done this remove the oil filter drip tray as it gives you much better access.

Now, the manual tells you to remove the passenger side driveshaft and states that the drivers’ side one can be moved out of the way. If you have the kit to remove the both of them easily I strongly recommend that you do. Trying to get the drivers one into a position where you can get the box out without it being fouled is harder than trying to work the new washing machine!! It just isn’t worth the hassle when you can remove them in a couple of minutes.
I used a chisel to remove the drive shafts from the transmission casing. Don’t hammer it in the way as this will damage the seals on the inside. Instead use it like a lever but in order to get enough leverage I had to hit it with a hammer but I hit it SIDEWAYS. This is where a decent pry bar would have helped.
When undoing the driveshaft nuts you need to lock the hub up, I used a long (5 feet) crowbar and just locked it between the wheel studs and the ground. The drive shaft nut will be tight!
Next undo the ball joint nut and split the ball joint and also split the track rod end ball joint. I removed the bottom bolt holding the hub to the suspension and loosened the top so I could just pivot things out of the way. This allowed me to remove the shaft without to much trouble.

With them out of the way the next thing to do it to remove the mounting section which runs under the engine. Two bolts front and back and a long bolt through each mount. This should come off quite easily and you can now get at the gearbox/engine bolts. This is where the third axle stand comes in. Using a block of wood to protect the sump, use the stand to support the engine as solidly as possible. When you remove the gear box the stand and the remaining engine mount will hold it in place. Now place your trolley jack under the box as you’ll be removing this next.

Okay, we’re winning. Now you need to undo the gear box top mount from the top chassis rail. This is where the deep socket comes into play as neither my sockets nor my ring spanner cold get to the nuts. You need to remove the bolt through the mount and the bolts on to the gear box itself. It won’t come of yet but it will soon.

Back under the car there is a small plate between the engine and box. It is held by two small bolts on the underside of the engine and by three bolts holding it to the gear box. Remove this, I didn’t the first time and cut my hands to bits trying to get access!

On a tip you now need to disconnect the drive plate from the torque converter. There are four bolts which have a very thin head to get a hold of and will be quite tight. Well, they do transmit 200BHP! Using a socket on the crankshaft pulley you can turn the engine to where you need it and undo these bolts, using the crankshaft pulley to give you leverage.

Next loosen the upper gearbox/engine bolts. Once you have them all loosened, remove them ensuring you have the gear box supported. These are different lengths so make sure you know which goes where. It was a good game trying to get them all back in the right place but after all this you don’t need it. Now the gear box should slide away from the engine. Make sure your torque converter is pushed firmly into the gearbox side! The gear box might need a bit of jiggling to get it into position but it only needs to go about half an inch before it can be dropped out. The top mount can need a bit of jiggling as well but patience is the key now.

Now it should drop down quite easily and hopefully the engine will sit nicely on its remaining mount and the axle stand. If you let the box tip backwards you will get ATF leaking from the drive shaft mounts onto your garage floor, there will be some no matter how well you drained it. I had some leak and had to lie in it to finish the job. Result, burnt back due to reaction to fluid.

As they say in all of the best books, re-fitting is the reverse of this procedure.

All of the torque settings can be found in the manual on the pages I have given.

I think that’s everything but if you have problems PM me and if you’re in central Scotland and fancy a few beers I might even come and give you a hand.

Storm

Get some pics up with that and I will put it in the DIY section.

[Bennoz]

Agreed, that's gold.

[Storm]

I've no pics but maybe someome can cut some of the diagrams out of the manual to add to it?