Performance Brakes

[Shane001]

Some info I posted up on the Supra forums that you guys might find useful.

In response to a question asking what brake upgrade should I buy?


IMO, unless you have minimum $5K to $10K to spend on brakes to do it properly, do the following. Most of these cheaper bolt on options will create more problems then they'll solve. You're better to spend the time and money to maximise the standard brakes and understand brakes in general before going down the path of major modifications.

As for top speed at EC, no I only ever got to around 210-220kph at EC. Remember I had to run that evil 36mm restrictor, which not only limited power but also limited top speed. But again having brakes that are capable of pulling you up on a 10 cent piece will only be as good as the tyres (and suspension for that matter) that you're running. It's all relative to your grip levels, not your top speed.

My recommendation for the street or track use (including entry level racing);
1: Quality slotted rotors. DBA are OK. Stay away from anything that is cross drilled or slotted to the edge. They will crack. Also stay away from fixed 2 piece rotors. Alloy & steel have very different thermal characteristics. Almost all professional race teams run 2 piece floating rotors for a reason.
EDIT: 1.5: Ensure your calipers are in good condition. Maybe have them rebuilt to be certain.
2: Quality brake fluid. Motul RBF600 is good. Bleed off between 25-50ml from each corner after every event.
3: Quality braided brake lines. Although to be honest I'm not entirely convinced these make a big difference over modern rubber brake lines.
4: BRAKE PADS. Your choice of pads is critical! Pads such as Project Mu, Hawk, Ferodo (DS3000), etc. They will not be cheap but these are arguably the most important component of your braking system. Run cheap pads and the rest is a waste of time. I currently use Project Mu HS16-03 in my FTO. Cost around $500 a set but they last forever!
5: Buy a decent dial guage and magnet stand and learn how to index your rotors. Index them before every event to minimise runout. If you can't get them below half of the factory limit (which for the Supra from memory is 0.13mm) go get them machined. Unfortunately this then presents the next challenge, finding a brake shop that can actually machine rotors true!!
6: Buy some thermal brake paint. AP Racing / Brembo / they all sell it. It's all the same just with a different label on it. Costs about $200. Looks like little jars of model paint. Absolutely crucial if you're serious about your brakes. Paint the rotors fresh before every event and monitor the peak temps. For standard calipers you don't want the rotors getting much more than 500degC. If they are you need to look at ducting to bring the temps down.
7: Do plenty of research on brakes. There's a lot of info on the web, a lot of it bullshit, but all you need to do is apply some common sense filtering and you can soon figure out what's what. Google is your friend

By now you should be starting to get an understanding of performance braking. The next step would be to install an adjustable bias valve so you can start running more rear brake. Once you start painting your brake rotors you'll realise just how little the rear brakes are utilised. Moving more bias to the rear will dramatically increase your stopping power. Unfortunately I doubt this would be legal on the street though.

The other thing is to look at how you are using the brakes. Learn to use your engine to slow the car. If you're not heel/toe braking learn how. This is a critical technique that will not only improve your laptimes but will also increase your braking capabilities.

Once you're at this stage and really feel you need more brake performance (unlikely unless you're running slicks) you can start looking at available upgrades. Floating 2 piece rotors and quality 4 piston calipers.

For me installing the Wilwood kit was a very steep learning curve. It took me quite a while, and a lot of money, work & stress, to get them working right. And they were definitely better than stock, but in hindsight I reckon I could have got a lot more out of the stock brakes with the knowledge I have now, and saved myself a whole lot of stress & dollars!

HTH

[Kustom]

Thanks for the great write-up shane

[Bennoz]

Agreed

[Shane001]

No worries

[SchumieFan]

sweet...

this has helped me a lot...

now im questioning the rotors ive got planned...
but with the aussie dollar so high im buying a lot of parts from these yanks...
these seem to meet your requirements???

[Shane001]

Haha, not my requirements Just sharing my experience

What are they? Link?

[SchumieFan]

they are american one offs for my zuk... no brand

www.roadracemotorsports.com

[evoman]

Nice writeup Shane.

Have you ever considered using a master cylinder brace? Or do you have any thoughts on them.
UAS have them for the FTO and I have heard people with other cars saying they make more difference to the brake feel than braided lines and give an equivalent improvement to bleeding (on lines that needed it).
When you pump your brakes you can see the firewall flex so I guess they couldn't hurt.

[Shane001]

Have you ever considered using a master cylinder brace? Or do you have any thoughts on them. UAS have them for the FTO

u got a link, just had a look on their website and couldn't see it.

Yeah have seen these but never given a lot of thought. Though as you say if there is flex then you'd expect this to help. Only way to tell would be back to back at WP

Have to find out if they're legal first though (for prod sports that is lol)

[evoman]

Nah don't have a link sorry.

I didn't even know they had them until I went there the other week and John took me out the back to his parts storeroom and showed them to me. I think he was asking for something like $200 for them which I think is a joke for what it is but I reckon you could probably talk him down.

[Bennoz]

Yeah I used to have one. They're really good, stops the firewall flex which is surprisingly quite a lot.

Had to take it off to use the bigger master cylinder thou & now I can't find it.

$200 is a bit rich for a simple piece of steel bracketry.

[Bennoz]

Ahh, here we go. Found a pic of one installed

[Shane001]

U still got yours Ben?

If u guys want I'd be happy to do a back to back with this next time I'm at WP. Only way to know how effective it is. If it's any good maybe we could get an alloy batch made up

[silverGPX]

Could get copies made up and sell them ben!

[AJ]

Standard brakes with DBA4000 rotors & Project Mu HS16-03 pads on the front, with standard rotors on the back with Ferodo DS2500 pads, & Motul RBF600 fluid

dba.com.au has the 4000 series rotors for $250 each. These are the slotted ones. Is that a bit pricey or about right?Is there somewhere else/cheaper to get them?

[SchumieFan]

each???

wtf? each rotor???

that sounds pricey for me...

but i dont know dba's

[Shane001]

For those who don't know how to use the search button

Also try Matthew at Race Brakes Sydney.
http://www.racebrakessydney.com.au/contact_us.html

$340 a pair

[Bennoz]

lol @ the smuggery!

Yeah, look its here somewhere.... but I haven't seen it in a loooong time. I'll have to have a good look.

Also had the issue where drilling into the strut tower ended up with the spring hitting the bolt. Will be ok for you with coilovers thou.

[Shane001]

hehe