6A12 Single Turbo

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:05 pm

Hi ppl,

im a new member here, been reading a few posts, mainly just collecting information for a project i have just about completed.

But anyway...

Im over here in NZ and have just got my MMC Galant V6 VR-4 going after 10 months of blood

What initially happened was the rear turbo spat its oil seal, started to smoke. I hate

smoke

so it came off the road for a quick freshen up

well... like i said, ten months down the track... its going finally again, abit different to how she used to be. She now sports and EVO3 BIG16G turbo, custom manifold, intercooler piping and rather large bar and plate intercooler and a few other little tricks.

now i know this isnt an FTO, but i do know that the roots of the engine are very similar, one thing different is the FTO engine is spun 180 degrees.

after a few more months we are hoping to make cheap single turbo kits, to hopefully fill a void of 6A12 performance parts.

anyway have a look at the pictures.

found here!

paladin · Post by **paladin** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:43 pm

somthing miht make it easyer
the fto engine was actually made with a trubo... goto www.autospeed.com.au and tpe in the engine code itll bring up an artical on mis engines

if you can find out what sort of car it was put into and get an engine i am sure it would make the rd a bit easyer!

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:35 am

paladin wrote:the fto engine was actually made with a turbo

the 6A12 V6 motor is the same as the FTO GR motor except it is fitted with twin turbos as std on the Galant VR4... however, the one major difference is that the gearbox is mounted on the driver's side, whereas the FTO's gearbox is mounted on the passenger side, making it extremely difficult for a 6A12TT conversion...

My 2c...

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:05 am

yes you are correct GPXXX, we have a local boy who has transplanted the internals from a TT motor into his GR and is looking at using a slightly modified turbo system that i have made.

salacious · Post by **salacious** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:28 am

I did look up the part numbers of the 6A12TT and 6A12 engine internals and they are the same for the crankshaft and the conrods, only the pistons are different. I think the compression ratio of the 6A12TT has been lowered to 8:1 (or maybe it is 8.5). This means at 6psi you would have about 12:1 compared to the 6A12 in NA form which runs 10.5:1.
A turbo charged 6A12 at 6psi would have a compression ratio of around 15:1 and the engines have seemed to survived, well so far

Brian

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:19 am

salacious wrote: A turbo charged 6A12 at 6psi would have a compression ratio of around 15:1....

whoa....

15:1 at just 6psi??? ya gotta proud of our rods and pistons LoL!!

makes you think eh...

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:36 am

So realistically we could get the pistons from the 6A12tt and increase the compression to 15:1 and not really have many problems.

That would be worth looking into, the low end response of the engine would be improved something shocking.

Or am I dreaming, and donâ€™t have a clue what im talking about.

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:52 am

i wouldnt recommend using the TT pistons as they are dished, which makes it harder to increase the static compression ratio

rods and pistons here

i also dont rank the rods as the best

i wonder if dannyboyau has any pic's of the 6A13 rods? or if the GPX's rods are any larger

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:10 pm

i think the 6A12TT has different rods+pistons / lower CR from factory (to handle the boost reliably) so technically no i don't think you'll be getting 15:1 compression by swapping over the 6A12TT pistons over to the MIVEC V6...

for that sort of expense, you are far better off buying a set of custom forgies and fit those instead while the block is open because the cost of labour alone will cost an arm & leg (unless someone offers to do them for you for free or if you have the mechanical know how)...

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:15 pm

ahh yes, but....

the MIVEC V6 has the same bore and stroke as the TT, *it could be* possible to put the dished pistons from the TT into the MIVEC, lowering the compression, making it nicer for boost applications.

anyone want some TT pistons

paladin · Post by **paladin** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:43 pm

wait? am i understanding this right....

to make a GPX boostable safly all we need is the heads and the trubo + manifold intercooler etc????

in that case i am a set of piston heads and an ecu away!

seems unrealistic given the hks turbo for the fto was somthing like 10k ? and i imagine they would of explored this simple posibility??

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:49 pm

i dont even think you'd need the heads, theoricitally, the GPX's heads should flow better, hence should provide better power.

i wouldnt go for the standard ECU either, factory GPX's are MAP sensed where as the TT's use a MAF sensor. Just but an aftermarket ECU you'd be much more happier with the results in the end

fto12345 · Post by **fto12345** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:48 pm

So how much power difference are we looking at?
And cheap? How much is cheap?
And is it a possibilities?
I guess you'll only know after testing it on your friend's FTO...

Thanks,

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:04 pm

AFAIK, HKS don't make turbo kits for FTOs...

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:08 pm

well, standard the TT has 183kw, im seat of the pants estimating i have somewhere near 200 - 220kw at the moment, the dyno will tell in a few weeks

this whole kit, including turbo has cost around the price of a good set of 17" tyres and new shocks, that gives you an idea.

it's going to cost abit more for the FTO though, just because of the computer

fto12345 · Post by **fto12345** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:14 pm

Well please keep us posted, as I know a lot of people would be interested to see how you go with the FTO project.

Although, even after you succeed with your friend's FTO, you may have more challenges to over come with a GPXs and GPvRs...As I am getting the idea that it's some what different.

But for my self at least, I would be very much interested to see how you go...

Thanks,

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:18 pm

paladin wrote:to make a GPX boostable safly all we need is the heads and the trubo + manifold intercooler etc????

in that case i am a set of piston heads and an ecu away!

having a hi-flow head does not necessarily mean you can run high amounts of boost... yes, the turbo, intercooler, manifold etc is required but the amount of boost you can run from the turbo ultimately depends on how much punishment your pistons/rods can handle and how well it has been tuned together... even forged pistons/rods can fail if the tuning is not carried out properly.

also bear in mind that you should also upgrade your rods when you fit stronger pistons because although the piston may be able to cope with the extra stress, the stock rods can easily break...

salacious · Post by **salacious** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:41 pm

What I was meaning was the the effective compression ratio of the engine would be 15:1 if it was turbocharged at 6psi [(10.5*14.7+6)/14.7] and not that if you put 6A12TT pistons in it that it would be running a 15:1 CR

If you have the same crankshaft and conrods on the 6A12 and 6A12TT then you must have the same stroke, the bore is also the same. Since the compression ratio is lower the volume when the piston is at TDC must be larger. You could do this a few ways thicker head gasket, different shaped piston and a different shaped cylinder head. The compressed volume of a 6A12 engine is 31.7cc and the 6A12TT is 39.1cc this would equate to a head gasket that would be about 1.5mm thicker.

I would take care about putting pistons from one engine into another, the seat of the piston tends to be shaped to fit near the cylinder head and you don't want these colliding.

Anyway who needs a Turbo in a GPX anyway

Brian

paladin · Post by **paladin** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:10 pm

salacious wrote:I did look up the part numbers of the 6A12TT and 6A12 engine internals and they are the same for the crankshaft and the conrods, only the pistons are different. I think the compression ratio of the 6A12TT has been lowered to 8:1 (or maybe it is 8.5). This means at 6psi you would have about 12:1 compared to the 6A12 in NA form which runs 10.5:1.
A turbo charged 6A12 at 6psi would have a compression ratio of around 15:1 and the engines have seemed to survived, well so far

Brian

thats what i was talking about GPXXX:) so i was of the understanding that jsut he heads would strengthen it enougth! and yes i do understand that, but obviusly the tt engine should be able to take enougth pounding for decent boost!

but i gues thats not possible either

as latter stated

so rims +suspension + a little extra about 7k?

a place in WA do it for 8k and had soem interesting results in finding the stock injectors etc can load another 50% i think it was.... zoom mag did an article and it can be found on the scottish fto club site

HKS in jap made one, i have seen lots of referrences to it :/ but no where that sells it!

TimmyD · Post by **TimmyD** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:29 pm

OH MY GOD!! IT HAS 2 INTERCOOLERS!hehehe