really off topic: Patent Laws

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smorison
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really off topic: Patent Laws

Post by smorison »

Hi,
quick question for some of our experts a couple of scenarios:

Patent is filed in country X
Product is manufactured in country Y
Product is sold in Country Z
does the patent apply?

(i think No)

Patent is filed in country Y
Product is manufactured in country Y
Product is sold in Country Z
does the patent apply?

(i think Yes)


thanks :)
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GPXXX
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Post by GPXXX »

can i buy a vowel with that? :roll::oops:

umm, i'm only taking an uneducated stab in the dark here but i think the patent will still apply regardless where it was manufactured or sold... which is sorta what Veilside USA is starting to do with their kits - they will take legal action against anyone copying their kits (the last time i heard anyway)
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Post by ruchi »

Having investigated patents and copyrights for businesses I've owned, the advice I was given was that there is quite a difference between infringing on either of them, and being sued because of it.

Primarily you can only be sued for two aspects:
1) The gain you have received from infringing on these patents or copyrights
2) The loss you have caused to the owner of the patents and copyrights

Assuming the manufacturer in country Y is selling them at wholesale to someone in country Z who will then sell them for retail. In theory the patent owner can sue the manufacturer for the revenue they generated through selling them at wholesale and for any damage caused to the patent owner (although this can be very hard to prove). The person retailing them in country Z should be fine as it is outside the jurisdiction of the patent.

If however the manufactuer did not gain from the transaction (i.e. they sell at a loss or the funds trail is hidden :wink:) then they could not be sued as there was no gain. They could still however be sued for damage they caused, but as stated above this is much harder to prove and chances are unless the quantity and dollars values are of a significant value it is very unlikely to be pursued.

Patents and copyrights fall primarily under civil law not criminal law, so the infringement would need to be significant enough for the patent owner to bear the legal costs of pursuing such a matter with the risk of possibly losing. They also have to find out about it first! :wink:

Again from advice I've received, typically if caught breaching a patent or copyright, and if you get found out, you are more than likely just going to receive a solicitors letter stating you are in breach and to stop production, or to remove the offending item from sale. If you comply nothing happens, if you don't then they'll pursue you, but only if worthwhile. As a delay tactic, you can also respond with a request of proof that they own this patent / copyright and evidence that you have infringed upon it.

At a guess, I assume we're talking about the *cough*altezza lights*cough*
Last edited by ruchi on Thu May 13, 2004 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ruchi »

Patents are country specific and normally last for 20 years, whereas copyrights are international (except those countries who haven't agreed to the treaty) and normally last for 99 years.

For Veilside to pursue legal action they would either need to have a patent within that country or the offending item would have to be breaching one of Veilsides copyrights.

I haven't heard of the Veilside issue before, but it could be as simple as them having a copyright on the "veilside" name and then car shops using the "veilside" name to advertise the copies.
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Post by Theremin »

Steve - Correct on both counts. Patent protection only applies in the countries where the patent is registered. A patent gives the registered owner the exclusive right to exploit the invention (and to authorise others to do so). If you are not the owner of the patent or have not been authorised by the owner, then manufacturing a patented product in the country where it is patented would infringe the patent.

Ruchi - Patent protection in Aust can be 8 or 20 years depending on the type of patent. The duration of copyright is more complicated because it depends on the type of work and whether it has been published, broadcast etc. It's not a straight 99 years. It's unlikely that copyright would subsist in the Veilside name (although it could subsist in the logo if it is a work of art). The Veilside name might be trade marked, however. And as well as patents, copyright and trade marks there is also a system of registered designs!
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Post by smorison »

yeah i did some reserach on the agreements between countries following this and it's quite complicated, but basically the patient only applies in the country it is applied for.

HOWEVER

the are provisions for Patents submitted in one country to be automatically filed in other countries and all this other good stuff which is why i'm asking.

thanks guys ;)
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Post by FTO338 »

I forward this question to Allens Arthur Robinson (mum's work) & this is the simple answer i got from them.

Patent is filed in country X
Product is manufactured in country Y
Product is sold in Country Z
does the patent apply?

(i think No - it applies only in country X where the patent was filed)

Patent is filed in country Y
Product is manufactured in country Y
Product is sold in Country Z
does the patent apply?

(i think Yes - only applies in country Y - patent will not apply in country Z unless application has been filed in that country)

Patents last its term of the author's lifetime + 75 years; ie 75 years after the author has died
DISCLAIMER: The above text is the personal opinion of the author and does not represent the indisputable truth. The author is not responsible for any deaths, injuries or mental illness caused by the above statments.
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Post by ruchi »

LOL! :lol: it's a small world isn't it? My cousin, who provided me with the various advice for my businesses, is an intellectual property (IP) lawyer with AAR, what does your mum do there?

I could be wrong but the author's lifetime + 75 years bit sounds like copyright not patent. The exclusivity offered on a patent is normally much smaller than that, normally 20 yrs or less from registration.
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Post by FTO338 »

Hahahh this is funny man, we figure we might already met each other when u were with IBM & i was with Intel. Bloody small world, next thing u going to tell me, u a distance relo haahhaha :wink:

Your cousin base in Syd or Melb? U ever go to AAR functions? i've been to a few before, so we might even met earlier then when u were with IBM.
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Post by ruchi »

He's based in Melbourne and no, I've never been invited to a AAR function and don't think I ever would be invited.
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