Airflow meters

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:34 pm

I want to change the intake setup on my Gr FTO and wont be able to use the MAF sensor setup. I plan on swaping it out with the MAP sensor from a GPX and have a few questions.

1. Are the plugs for the sensors compatible?
2. Will the standard ecu recognise the MAP sensor?
3. If this works does anybody know where I can a MAP sensor?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Post by **vipfto** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:46 pm

i looked at doing this but you will need to piggyback ecu so unless you have other mods that require it will be expensive just to get rid of afm

Post by **Bennoz** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:15 pm

Plus, there is a lot of misconception about the MAF technology, its actually a more efficient way of measuring the air speed & temp. If you are concerned about it being a 'blockage' in the intake pipe, then just pull the mesh filter off it & put it back in.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:26 pm

As said you need a piggyback ecu at the least to remove the MAF

Cost you will looking at will include (these are only estamates)

ECU: 400+ emange blue
install and tune: $500-$800
Map Sensor to suit emanage: $350
Install and removal of MAP and MAF: $300

I also agree with ben, the only reason ill be considering it is the MAF cant handle the boost. But i have seen it done before so it should be alright

Post by **Bennoz** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:31 pm

I8A4RE wrote:I also agree with ben, the only reason ill be considering it is the MAF cant handle the boost. But i have seen it done before so it should be alright

Ya just gotta have it in the right place

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:10 pm

Thanks for the replies but maybe I should clear a few things up so you can better understand what I am trying to do/achieve.

1. I am doing research on something I am wanting to make for the FTO. A multiple throttle body setup. This will be done using 6 motorbike throttle bodies. This is the reason for my need of a MAP sensor.

2. I understand that the MAF sensor is a supeior way of measuring airflow but in my situation cant be used.

3. In regards to the supplied picture of the MAF sensor, that is one of the most ineffecient ways to mount the sensor. In this situation a pod filter is used and because of its design it causes the incoming air to swirl and mess with the readings. Not trying to have a go at anyone, simply trying to make people aware.

Does anybody have a MAP sensor I could buy so I could try this? Im pretty handy with electronics and would really like to try. Any other suggestions on how I could do this?

yano · Post by **yano** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:07 pm

Jamie, about 3-4weeks ago i popped into all jap auto spares on 62 Kingston Rd, Underwood (3841 0066) cos I was after the momo steering wheel. They had a gpx half cut laying there with the engine intact. Give them a call to see if they have anything, they seemed reasonable for price too. Failing that, there's asian auto spares as well.

Places over north side are probably closer for you though, but if you needed me to pop over and pick it up for you let us know cos I'm like 5-10mins away either of those places.

yano · Post by **yano** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:09 pm

Bennoz wrote:
I8A4RE wrote:I also agree with ben, the only reason ill be considering it is the MAF cant handle the boost. But i have seen it done before so it should be alright
Ya just gotta have it in the right place

I'm assuming this pic is your new background and also a taste of things to come bennoz

red fto with 6a13

Post by **I8A4RE** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:43 pm

Jamie wrote:Thanks for the replies but maybe I should clear a few things up so you can better understand what I am trying to do/achieve.

1. I am doing research on something I am wanting to make for the FTO. A multiple throttle body setup. This will be done using 6 motorbike throttle bodies. This is the reason for my need of a MAP sensor.

2. I understand that the MAF sensor is a supeior way of measuring airflow but in my situation cant be used.

3. In regards to the supplied picture of the MAF sensor, that is one of the most ineffecient ways to mount the sensor. In this situation a pod filter is used and because of its design it causes the incoming air to swirl and mess with the readings. Not trying to have a go at anyone, simply trying to make people aware.

Does anybody have a MAP sensor I could buy so I could try this? Im pretty handy with electronics and would really like to try. Any other suggestions on how I could do this?

Mate im telling you now its impossible to re wire a MAP sensor in place of a MAF, withhout using the above mention procedure or a f**k load of cash, otherwise they would be doing it all the time.

Post by **vipfto** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:25 pm

I8A4RE wrote:
Jamie wrote:Thanks for the replies but maybe I should clear a few things up so you can better understand what I am trying to do/achieve.

1. I am doing research on something I am wanting to make for the FTO. A multiple throttle body setup. This will be done using 6 motorbike throttle bodies. This is the reason for my need of a MAP sensor.

2. I understand that the MAF sensor is a supeior way of measuring airflow but in my situation cant be used.

3. In regards to the supplied picture of the MAF sensor, that is one of the most ineffecient ways to mount the sensor. In this situation a pod filter is used and because of its design it causes the incoming air to swirl and mess with the readings. Not trying to have a go at anyone, simply trying to make people aware.

Does anybody have a MAP sensor I could buy so I could try this? Im pretty handy with electronics and would really like to try. Any other suggestions on how I could do this?
Mate im telling you now its impossible to re wire a MAP sensor in place of a MAF, withhout using the above mention procedure or a f*** load of cash, otherwise they would be doing it all the time.

+1 totally agree with simon your wasting your time and not to mention money which could be better spent in other areas

Post by **I8A4RE** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:57 pm

and ben, i dont have that luxury of space. My turbo is gonna sit right where the afm is in your pic

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:14 pm

Yano28
Jamie, about 3-4weeks ago i popped into all jap auto spares on 62 Kingston Rd, Underwood (3841 0066) cos I was after the momo steering wheel. They had a gpx half cut laying there with the engine intact. Give them a call to see if they have anything, they seemed reasonable for price too. Failing that, there's asian auto spares as well.

Places over north side are probably closer for you though, but if you needed me to pop over and pick it up for you let us know cos I'm like 5-10mins away either of those places.

Thanks for the offer I will let you know how I go.

I8A4RE
Mate im telling you now its impossible to re wire a MAP sensor in place of a MAF, withhout using the above mention procedure or a f*** load of cash, otherwise they would be doing it all the time.

Look Im not trying to be rude here but have you tried this or know of anyone that has to support this? If so some information would be helpful so I can determine why/how they went wrong. Who do you mean by 'they'?

vipfto
+1 totally agree with simon your wasting your time and not to mention money which could be better spent in other areas

Mate even if the sensor cost me $100 thats not a big outlay. Electronic components and associated cable would come from work. If this works the possible gains would well be worth the money.

Come on guys looking for some positive feedback here

Post by **I8A4RE** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:53 pm

Jamie i know your not trying to be rude and i hope your not taking my comments that way either.

Who have i talked to??? Apart from numerous mechanics (I used to be one) and heaps of auto electricians they have assured me its not possible/feasible.

Ok this what I have been told and I have written it in laymans terms as I am not a Auto electrician nor a electricain:

The problem lies in the ECU not the wiring. The ecu reads different signals from a MAF to a MAP. Now if you were able to make a box that converted the signals from one format to another (i have no idea if thats even possible) then you may be able to achieve what you want. BUT in saying that the amount of time, money and effort that you would put into it, your better off just buying a piggyback.

Now, you neither have to believe me or trust me. Do yourself a favour and ring 10-15 auto electricians and see what they say

Please dont take what im saying as being a smartass, cause for once im trying not to be

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:29 pm

I understand that the signals from the MAP and the MAF sensors would be different but I suspect not that much. I believe that the signals from both sensors would be sent back to the ecu as either a change in voltage or frequency.

I8A4RE
Now if you were able to make a box that converted the signals from one format to another (i have no idea if thats even possible) then you may be able to achieve what you want.

Thats a great idea. This should be definetely doable as long as I can get a hold of both the wirring diagrams. (Currently downloading one from this site) I have done this sort of thing at work before and never even though about applying it in this situation. The kind of positive feedback I needed

Can anybody tell me if the standard ecu's from the Gr and Gpx are the same besides the obvious difference in airflow sensors and mivec controll? (I supect Mitsubishi have used the same ecu for both models and just programed them differently to use use varying sensors)

Post by **I8A4RE** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:10 pm

dont know if many ppl have pulled them apart, good luck with your project

Post by **Bennoz** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:32 am

Its been done before. Have a word to the guys at Euro Spec in the UK. They actually sell an upgraded factory ECU package for the GR which includes MAF sensor removal. You'll have to convince them you dont need one of their kits before they'll talk thou..

http://euro-spec2000.co.uk/