Are FTOs over rated or under rated?

G1 · Post by G1 » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:16 pm

Here is an debate I had with a friend who is very biased against the FTO

jiwan says:
http://www.ftowa.com/html/motorsport/motorsport.html
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
?
jiwan says:
oh youre there haha
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
u gotta be kidding me
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
get over it!
jiwan says:
hahaha
jiwan says:
well just sick of hearing your nonsense about ftos
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
I've never seen someone so proud of an FTO
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
what nonsense?
jiwan says:
you keep comapring my car to skiline and 200sx...
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
and?
jiwan says:
anyway your last comment just sums it up
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
they're faster
jiwan says:
yeah faster in a straight line
jiwan says:
and they have turbo
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
no, full stop
jiwan says:
comparable cars to fto is integra type r, celica zr
jiwan says:
they are not in the same league as turbo cars
jiwan says:
i never claimed to be faster in the first place
jiwan says:
actually an FTO won the GTP couple years back
jiwan says:
he was lapping some 200sxs
jiwan says:
an integra type r can beat a wrx on some tracks
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
no, not some tracks, some drivers can drive better than others
jiwan says:
yeah true, so you admit that in the hands of a good driver, FWD nun turbo cars like integra type r and fto can beat turbo charged cars
jiwan says:
not that they are even in the same league anyway
jiwan says:
there are about 4 turbo ftos in aus
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
of course!
jiwan says:
they would kick any wrx or 200sx
jiwan says:
and they do
jiwan says:
anyway i just wanted to make a point, since i know how biased you are
jiwan says:
i bought my car for street use... not track or drah strip use
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
on a curvey rd, Jun-young sometime has trouble keeping up with me, especially in the rain because his car is a RWD while mines AWD. Yet, that doesn't mean my car's a better performance... it just handles and corners well.
jiwan says:
it has good fuel economy and is faster than the average car... i never claimed to be faster than a turbo car
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
no, not WRX... they are famous for cornering. I know of very few cars that handle better than a rex.
jiwan says:
so you think a car is just pure horsepower?
jiwan says:
so youve driven a WRX have you?
jiwan says:
and you have driven an FTO?
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
and GTO too
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
WRX handles like a go cart
jiwan says:
yeah i admit they are good in the wet.. or loose surface
jiwan says:
since they have LSD
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
ㅜㅐ, 솓 ㅁㅉㅇ ㅑㄴ 솓 ㅏ됴 ㅔㅐㅑㅜㅅ
jiwan says:
thats why they are good in rallies
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
no the AWD is the key point
jiwan says:
but FWD are also good for that
jiwan says:
you just gotta know how to drive it
jiwan says:
anyway i dont even know why youre comparing my cars to all these other cars
jiwan says:
its not like i ever claimed to be faster than then
jiwan says:
thats my point
jiwan says:
and they arent as bad as you think
jiwan says:
winning the GTP is one major evidence
jiwan says:
and if you wanna talk tit fot tat.. compare turbo fto to them
jiwan says:
0-100 in low 4s
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
I think FTO's are serverly over rated because of their body shape. I've seen so many people carry on about an FTO like as if it's in the same class as a GTO.
That would be like me profesing to be in the same class to WRX since the body looks the same.
That's my point.
jiwan says:
actually they are UNDER rated
jiwan says:
so did you hear me talk like that?
jiwan says:
if you go on all the car forums
jiwan says:
when ever fto comes out ppl actually bag them out
jiwan says:
without even knowing much about them
jiwan says:
kinda like you
jiwan says:
i replied to one of those threads once. and noone could say anything back
jiwan says:
i have never heard of an FTO owner thinking they are in the same league as the GTO
jiwan says:
but what i have seen is some freak FTOs beating lighly moded 200sx and skylines
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
well, we're all entitled to opinions.
My personal opinion is that FTO's are very over rated, expecially since it's categorised as a sports car.
I wouldn't say they are very far above a normal impreza or a Pulsa SSS in terms of handling and/pwr, and they're not even performance vehicles.
jiwan says:
beaty of turbo cars is that they provice most gains for less money invested
jiwan says:
hahaha ok
jiwan says:
ive never heard of a normal imprezza or sss coming even close to beating a fto but anyway
jiwan says:
ive heard of integra type r been moded up to do 12 sec 1/4 miles
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
Just think about the body shape - what other purpose, apart from being a racing car, could an FTO serve? It's designed like a turbo car. It's not a quick sedan or a very fast family car is it?
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
thus is my justice for comparing it to turbo charged cars.
jiwan says:
for me, its a nice road car at the moment
jiwan says:
so same goes for integra type r?
jiwan says:
it won JAPAN CAR OF THE YEAR in 94 AND 95
jiwan says:
FTO did that is
jiwan says:
so obviously you are only looking at horsepower
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
secondly, if you're really talking about street use and practicality, then it's not fair to simply consider how well it handles and corners. Remember, big horse pwr will allow the car to accelerate even with 4~5 people sitting in the car.
That's why you gota respect a Com. SS, whether you personally like it or not.
jiwan says:
i never said i didnt respect them
jiwan says:
see you think that i think the FTO is like the best car or something
jiwan says:
i dont
jiwan says:
i accpet it for what it is and like it for what it is
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
I'm not into horse pwr, in fact, I'm not even into fast cars. I'm actually a 4WD fan and plan to get a Wrangler.
jiwan says:
its a FWD NA car with a chassis second only to the integra type r in the FWD category
jiwan says:
if i wanted a fast car then of course i could have got skyline or 200sx
jiwan says:
but things i considered are: fuel economy, the 8k redline and how beutiful it sounds, the shape, nice interior etc etc
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
I don't think that. Well, I probably assumed it because every other FTO owners I've met, they were all a little like Lancer drivers. (Over rated their car's capability)
jiwan says:
well they are probably 17-18 year olds who dont know what they are talking about
jiwan says:
believe me ive been around fto owners for 4 years now
jiwan says:
we dont think we are faster than 200sx and WRX
jiwan says:
but like i said, a well tuned FTO can beat some 200sx, skylines, 180sx etc
jiwan says:
i can prove it to ya anytime
jiwan says:
just come and see it
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
I know of people paying so much for an FTO, then spending even more on it (on the out side! not under the bonnet!).
and I think - 'try hard'. That's my generalisation... you may be an exception, but as to the half dozen other jjang-ggae's and FTO owners, my judgement stands justified.
jiwan says:
obviously not a heaviliy moded 200sx with huge turbo, FMC and boost controller etc
jiwan says:
yeah i see where you are coming from
jiwan says:
but it just annoyed me that you talked to me like as if you were talking to one of them
jiwan says:
when i never even made any claims yet
jiwan says:
and good on them if they wanna have a nice LOOKing car than a FASTER car
jiwan says:
who are you to decide what someone wants to do to their car
jiwan says:
some ppl enjoy driving luxry BMW 318i
jiwan says:
and spend $20,000 on all options
jiwan says:
coz performance isnt important to them
jiwan says:
if it was you or me however, maybe we would skip and go the 325 instead
jiwan says:
if you notice ive made sure there is not "ricey" components on my car
jiwan says:
just clean subtle mods
jiwan says:
ive seen some wrx and 200sx and skylines done up in a same ricey way... so it goes both ways
jiwan says:
and its pathetic when they dont even know how to drive it properly
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
Who am I to decide? We're all entitled to opinions. Some people might think they're cool because they had shiny mags on their fto's, I think that's a very bad move in terms of fashion statement - and fashion/style is one area you can pass judgements on others without actually offending character. Just think about it, someone can make fun of you for being a rev. head without offending you. They sim
jiwan says:
ok fair enough you are entilted to you opinion, obvously you dont have a capacity to respect someone else's taste, as we all have different tastes... it would be stupid to see all sports cars done up exactly the same way... when i went to US i see mexicans doing up their car to look like SHOWCARS with chrome mags, bodykit, custom paint, air brushings etc... i can respect that coz thats his thing
jiwan says:
and its his scene
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
Don't take me seriously when I beg you out about cars. If you happended to own a WRX, I'd still bag you out for owning a wog car. IF you had a Diablo, I'd still think of something to joke about.
jiwan says:
yeah its not the bagging out as such...
Dokky - (It was a good death!) says:
By the way. Gotta go to team lunch. Do some work!
jiwan says:
it just seemed to me that you had some negative misconceptions about the car... and what i think my car can and cant do...
jiwan says:
ok anyway i hope you got my point

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:29 pm

hmmm... well I skim-read that, as it was even longer than some of the messages I post

It seems that the focus was primarily on the performance characteristics of the car, which is only just one aspect. It also appeared that the comparison was between the older FTO and newer or current model cars.

I have only two things to say:
1) When you compare apples to apples, the FTO is mighty sweet!

2) People can bullshit and carry-on as much as they like, but at the end of the day there is only one question to ask: is the FTO a special car to you? because it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, all that matters is that you're happy with it.

G1 · Post by G1 » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:25 pm

it's pretty annoying when someone is always bagging you out for having a FTO for all the wrong reasons. as you can see i kept my calm and reasoned with him with hard facts... but his bias couldn't be swayed...

maybe those extraverted FTO owners are giving out signs making ppl perceive them to be over rated...

i admit that when someone sees a FTO for the first time, it does look FASTER than it really is... so those ppl may over rate them.

but generally people under rate the FTO i think.

Radium · Post by **Radium** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:34 pm

All things considered, the FTO is the best car you can buy for $20k, in my humble opinion. Styling, interior, decent power, good handling, the sound it makes, the women that flock to it (well maybe not so much anymore)... There's nothing really wrong with it at all. So what if other cars go faster? The FTO is a complete package.

The looks don't date nearly as much as most other cars - 10 years on and it still turns heads. A 10yr old Skyline doesn't. No turbo? Brilliant - low insurance. Most people don't buy the FTO for performance anyway.

The stock FTO isn't a race car, it's just a sweet-looking road car with some extra punch. And a WRX is one ugly looking car if you ask me.

G1 · Post by G1 » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:25 pm

well said... i think we FTO owners (should hopefully) all know that...

now he's going on about how FTO is for people who cant afford GTOs, he's saying this is the general perception out there - that FTO is a cheap substitute for GTOs

he's comparing it like lancers vs EVOs
and Imprezzas vs WRXs

do you guys think this is true? was GTO (3000GT) your dream car but you settled for a FTO coz you cant afford it?

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:27 pm

Like the others had said, who care what the other thinks or said, as long as u like/love your car.

Look at COTY, PCOTY or BFYB, every year no matter which car had won, theres plenty of people will disagree to it. So its like your friend said he will always stir u up no matter what u drive, & that goes with others without saying.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:28 pm

pffft... typical attitude coming from a Skyline driver... what else do you expect? LoL...

G1 · Post by G1 » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:34 pm

he drives a imprezza RX actually!

his friend has a lightly moded gtst... i should get gav to run him and show him whos boss

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:41 pm

wtf, an RX?? mehhh, i rest my case then...

being underrated is a good thing IMO...

:D It's the next best thing to having a real sleeper hehe...

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:54 pm

I always love the shape of FTO, & thats why i brought it, not because of its a cheaper version of GTO.

FTO & GTO had totally different type of engine setup, unlike RX Vs WRX, its similar setup apart from DOHC & turbo. That goes with Lancer & EVO too. (current model which are both 2.0L)

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:56 pm

G1 wrote:was GTO (3000GT) your dream car but you settled for a FTO coz you cant afford it?

Nope.

The GTO may be a more powerful car, but I MUCH prefer the looks of the FTO. The GTO is beginning to look old and dated whereas the FTO still looks quite new and fresh.

There will always be a newer, faster, better handling, more powerful car. So what? It really doesn't matter if specification wise your car is not as good and it certainly doesn't matter that someone else doesn't like the way it looks. All that matters is that it is a special car to you.

Personally I hate the look of carbon fibre, Mikey (GPXXX) loves it. So what? This is just personal preferences. Doesn't mean we can't be friends and get along. Big deal if someone doesn't like the look of the FTO and so what if there are newer cars which are more powerful? Does this REALLY matter?

I think he may just be trying to sh*t-stir you, and so far it seems to be working.

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:35 pm

[/quote]The looks don't date nearly as much as most other cars - 10 years on and it still turns heads.

I agree,

The shape of our cars does not really age at all. For example people are always shocked by the age of the car, because they thought that it was a new model that had just been released.

I can guarantee it will take at least another 10 years or so until the cars even start to show their age.

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:39 pm

oops stuffed that up

G1 · Post by G1 » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:13 pm

haha ruchi, i admit im annoyed, but he seriously thinks FTO is crap, not JUST to stir sh*t up... if i knew it was just to stir up sh*t i wouldnt even be annoyed...

i just thought it would be interesting to discuss it here though...

see if you dont get annoyed if everyime you meet a certain friend they'll compare your car to skylines and 200sx and tell you its not much better than a pulsar sss, basically i had to set the record straight today to clear up his misconceptions... i do think that we FTOs owners do get more flack than others... simply due to the lack of horsepower which doesn't match the fast looks on the FTO

i dont think i'll hear more nonsense out of him again now anyway... and if i do... this time i know hes just f$$cking around

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:40 pm

If all they can do is compare it to something else bigger and more powerful, then perhaps there is a reason. Perhaps they have some inferiority or "size" issues themselves and this is their way or feeling big!

They're not comparing apples to apples and if they can't see that then they're just plain stupid.

If we are comparing apple to apples, then I don't agree with the lack of HP. How many other 2L FWD cars can produce 200HP and how long did it take them to do so? The FTO did this back in 1994.

When it was released the FTO was judge by the motoring critics as being better than the Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru equivilants. However we are now 10 years on, and of course there are going to be "better" cars on the market now.

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:46 pm

G1 wrote: see if you dont get annoyed if everyime you meet a certain friend they'll compare your car to skylines and 200sx and tell you its not much better than a pulsar sss, basically i had to set the record straight today to clear up his misconceptions... i do think that we FTOs owners do get more flack than others... simply due to the lack of horsepower which doesn't match the fast looks on the FTO

Tell them to get a life, & ask them what car do they drive (eg: your friend with the RX) ehehehehe

G1 wrote: i dont think i'll hear more nonsense out of him again now anyway... and if i do... this time i know hes just f$$cking around

Send him to Robb, he'll fix him up GOOD

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:48 pm

ruchi wrote:If all they can do is compare it to something else bigger and more powerful, then perhaps there is a reason. Perhaps they have some inferiority or "size" issues themselves and this is their way or feeling big!

They're not comparing apples to apples and if they can't see that then they're just plain stupid.

If we are comparing apple to apples, then I don't agree with the lack of HP. How many other 2L FWD cars can produce 200HP and how long did it take them to do so? The FTO did this back in 1994.

When it was released the FTO was judge by the motoring critics as being better than the Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru equivilants. However we are now 10 years on, and of course there are going to be "better" cars on the market now.

TOTALLY 100% AGREE

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:06 pm

As we know the FTO is 150kw. As a comparison, based on information @ drive.com.au, back in 1994:

Imprezza GX - 76kw
Imprezza WRX (Turbo) - 155kw
Integra GSI - 107kw
Integra VTiR - 125kw
Celica - 99kw
Celica GT4 (Turbo) - 178kw

LOL

You want to talk about sh*t, in 1994 when the FTO came out the only way Subaru could beat it was with a turbo, and only by 5kw

Comparing apples to apples (naturally aspirated engines), the FTO had around 50% more power than the Honda and Toyota equivilant and roughly 100% more power than the Subaru!!!!!!!!!

Let me repeat that: roughly 100% more power than the Subaru. The only thing that came close was the Honda Integra VTiR with 125kw.

Anyone trying to heap sh*t on the FTO and not comparing apples to apples is just a wanker!

Robb · Post by **Robb** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:38 pm

FTO338 wrote:
Send him to Robb, he'll fix him up GOOD

Yeah send him my way

Most of the flak that the FTO gets comes from it's looks.. face it if the FTO was any sexier looking then none of us would have GF's....

The FTO is better looking then almost all other cars so something else is focussed on and in the FTO's case it's lack of SERIOUS power and FWD so thats what ppl pick on..

I can see this guy craping on FTO's cos he drives an ugly RX and the FTO is better looking and goes better so he feel bad and has to compare our cars with car's that are faster due to turbo's etc etc.

And what F@#ked up hallucinatory was this guy injecting when he thought that an FTO compares to an Imprezza and SSS.. Dude I've raced both and killed both..

In my opinion people tend to bag what they dont have or is better then they have.... The FTO is sexy and people are jealous plain and simple..

Ps. I think the FTO is way UNDER rated....

Robb...

Post by **Supplanter** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:50 pm

I think the FTO is under rated... I like the way it sh!ts people when they realise they aren't winning