DIY: Stepper Motor & Input Sensor

[I8A4RE]

lol, yeah i just like trying to help out where i can as it stimulates learning for myself as well as hopefully helping the pther person

I was having a look at the wiring diagram that i had downloaded from this website and this may help you work out whuich pin is which



So it loks like the one you pointed to was the correct NO 1 pin (as far as i can tell from the pic you supplied)

[tompocz]

Well had another go at working on the FTO

My work in the previous post did make a difference in the car running and idling, as follows

1. Disconnected battery 36 hrs ago and worked on checking wires and sensors.
2. Worked on and checked Lamda Sensor as per previous post - to be replaced eventually just in case.
3. Checked all plugs on sensor to ensure they were seated properly
4. I reset the SAS settings, as my previous settings I believe were incorrect. So I tripple checked the adjustment (Murhy, O'Brien and My Law LOL)
5. I started the car up and straight away I noticed a difference. Keep in mind this car had NOT been started in 36 hrs
6. Let the car idle for about 15 minutes.
7. I then noticed that the revs went spaso where it nearly died as the idle went right down, but didn't cut out the motor. This lasted for about 2 minutes and I let the car go without any intervention.
8. I left it running for a while (2-3 minutes), heard a clunk (may have been the stepper having a whinge) and then all came good. The revs on idle WIHOUT any load, electrical or otherwise was spot on.
9. Turned the heater on and noticed a totally different reaction in idle

Im now going to try and explain now how the behaviour was with the heater on ........ so bear with me

As soon as I turned the heater on, and by listenning to the exhaust, I noticed the revs go up a smiggen JUST BEFORE the fan physically cut it. I also noticed at the same time a slight ping or knocking sound before this occured. I can only assume this was the Stepper Motor working to the potential increase in demand for revs.

The revs did go up slightly (about 100rpm) and there was no noticible hunting or splurting of sound coming from the exhaust aspreviously evident. When the fan cut out after about 15 seconds, the revs and load on the motor went down as expected.

The main change I made was to positioning and location of the wiring loom for the stepper motor - cable is now on the RHS of the fuel line putting less stress on the wire and connector. The following photo explains the method to my madness.



Anyway, my plot now is to test the car and start it tomorrow morning after a cold night.

Maybe Im being too enthusiastic with the above, but I defintely noticed a difference in the idle behavour as per my previous posts in this thread, and today's efforts and tests appeared positive.

Will let you all know how you go with tomorrow mornings test after a cold night.

PS - any feedback on the TPS issues in testing as per my previous posts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Tom

[tompocz]

Gday I8A4RE

So it loks like the one you pointed to was the correct NO 1 pin (as far as i can tell from the pic you supplied)

Doh - Homer Simpson !! - Big Time - Should have reviewed the wiring so as to identify the pin-outs for the TPS - thanks for the heads up, but will study them later as Ive connected all the pieces back for the wife to use the car tomorrow.

Plus Im tired, need a beer and a casual surf on the net !!

Onya mate and thanks

Cheers
Tom

[tompocz]

Well Im looking foward to installing the O2 Lamda Sensor this weekend - just recieved the part off ebay.

It comes with 4 wires as with the following descriptions

Two white wires are sensor heat wires. Polarity does not matter.
Grey wire is sensor earth
Black wire is ECU Signal wire

By looking at the new sensor, I have to say I like the way the have done the connectors, where by you can easily crimp the wires, and then use the heat shrink over the connection.



The only thing I would do is to apply some sort of tape or heat shrink over points A & B, so that dirt or moisture doesnt impact on the exposed wires.



Now given the above colour coding from the new sensor, the following translation applies to connection to the plug, and in also referencing the wire diagram for the O2 sensor.

White 1 Signal ------------> New Sensor Black
Black 2 Ground/Earth ----> New Sensor Grey
Red 3 Heater --------------> New Sensor White
Black 4 Heater ------------> New Sensor White

The following picture shows the wiring of the plug, and was derived from the electrical wiring diagram in one of my previous posts in this thread.



Looking forward to working on this and the TPS tomorrow.

Thanks to I8A4RE for pointing me in the right direction for the pin-outs to the TPS - pins are from left to right, 1 to 4.

Onya
Tom

[tompocz]

Newsflash - Newsflash - Newsflash
Both I8A4RE and I are WRONG about the pinouts to the TPS

Given that my mentality involves "Trust but Verify" in everything I do, I always double and tripple check my conclusions.

To this end, I looked at the wiring diagram that I8A4RE showed me, and in doing so, I decided to check the colours of the wires in the plug.

The electrical diagram shows the following



Wire 1 is therefore F (B) which means Flexiable Black
Wire 2 is therefore Y-L which means Yellow-Blue (CableCoating-MarkingColour)
Wire 3 is therefore R-W which means Red-White (CableCoating-MarkingColour)
Wire 4 is therefore G-Y which means Yellow-Green (CableCoating-MarkingColour)

If you compare the location of the coloured wires on the plug, they are infact the opposite of what I stated - e.g. from Left to Right is pins 4 to 1.



I can further validate this assesment by the following logic. I was always troubled by a "little notch" that shows up on the electrical diagram and as to what it means.

By looking at the wiring diagram and the actual plug, I can only assume that the plug notch orientation is important also in determing how the wire are located. So my assesment towards the TPS is that by looking at the plug from the front of the car, the plug is "upside-down".



Hows that for an arguement - any takers on my logic ??

So the Moral of the Story, is always check the colour coding in the electrical diagram with the actual colours of the connector to ascertain which pin is which.

Cheers
Tom

[I8A4RE]

Yeah i didnt check the wiring colours as the manual that hey are from are from a 98 and my car is a 94 and i have found some discrepencies. So the notch is wht i was looking at.

Sorry i got it wrong hard to tell from the from a pic but nonetheless i was wrong, good work and good luck tomorrow, hope to hear some good news. I was just thinking did you say you have replaced the stepper motor or not?

[tompocz]

Yep - I replaced the stepper motor - $200 from nardek.

I am recieving a input shaft sensor to hopefully resolve the flashing N prob, and decided for good measure to replace the O2 sensor.

I wish to also check if not adjust the TPS as well, hence the need to know what pin is what.

Will let you know how I go

Cheers
Tom

[tompocz]

I installed the O2/Lamda Sensor on the weekend. The following points will assist you

1. First thing you do is check to see if the new sensor actually fits into the exhaust pipe, or atleast do a comparison of threads sizes between the old and the new. Its pointless doing all the work and then you find the new sensor does not fit.

2. Before attaching the wires, ensure that you have placed the gromet and any heat shrink onto the sensor wire. If not, and once wired, you may not be able to get the gromet over the plug.

3. When wiring up the 4 wires to the plug, I first wired the "heater wires" as these were the one's for me to "least" get wrong and elimates 2 out of 4 wires easily. I knew that the two white wires from the new sensor would connect to wires 3 & 4 (red & black) on the FTO wiring side.

4. Before heat-shrinking, always double check (I tripled) your wiring to ensure you have connected them correctly.




The above photo shows the Gromet and also the heat thrink applied. I decided against using electrical tape, as I fel that such tape could melt or burn , given it being close to a hot exhaust.



The above snap shows the new sensor installed - a very painless job, especially when while having a beer



The above compilation shows my efforts in explaining the wiring makeup, how it can be verified, and refers to a universal sensor that I purchased.

Hope it all helps.

Sadly, replacing the sensor did not resolve my problem of idling issues. The petrol smell still exists. I did however notice that the motor behaved more "cleanly" or "exact" - hard to explain but the following may shed some light.

1. When the car starts from cold, it struggles for about 3 seconds (on the verge of stalling) before it finds itself to rev the motor. Motor idles at about 1300rpm, and fuel smell is extremely evident out of exhaust.
2. If you then turn the fan on, the revs increase to about 1500rpm
3. Just before (about 5 seconds) the motor reaches its normal idling temperature (ie around 800rpm) I can hear the engine go slightly spastic with some noises for about 4 second, and then the motor sounds great and the fuewl smell is gone. When turning the aircon/heater on, it goest to about 950rpm, fan is running, and no hint of fuel. When heater is off it then cuts the revs back down to 800rpm, again no hint of fuel. Everything looks great once the motor is warm.

To date, I have replaced the stepper motor, fuel filter, checked the TPS, replaced the O2/Lamda sensor, checked all my wiring, checked the SAS screw, but to no avail. No errors are evident from the ECU (no codes showing) and have disconnected the battery numerous times.

Im hoping some of you can give me further advice. Failing that, I fear I may need to take it to a mechanic again.

Look forward to your replies

Cheers
Tom

[I8A4RE]

Ok i think i have solved your problem.

You have wired the O2 sensor around the wrong way. The two black ones are the heater wires. Well thats what it is on my FTO. Where did you get that wiring diagram from, cause the one from the FTO electrical manual is for a 98 FTO and i think there a differences in the wiring colours.

OK THIS IS WHAT I THINK MAY BE HAPPENING: the o2 sensor needs to heat up to work properly, thats why it has heater. Yours is not getting heated (because of incorrect wiring) and is running like crap, as soon as o2 sensor warms up car runs sweet.

What do you think?

Ill jack my car up tomorrow and see how i have wired mine cause the pics i did in my DIY guide are crap.........

[tompocz]

Gday I8A4RE

The wiring diag was from an FTO 98 wiring manual found commonly on the net.

I checked also the www.ftooc.org site and a comment made by Mr Bishi is as follows

So then in summary the FTO side of the connection is as follows:

Black - Heater
Black - Heater
Blue - Ground
White - Signal

....Is this correct??

No,the plug on the fto side is

Red - Heater
Black - Heater
White - Signal
Black - Ground.....These are the wires that run from the fto loom to the lambda plug.

But once it plugs into the lambda the colours are as follows

Black - Heater
Black - Heater
Blue - Signal
White - Ground.....Just to clarify,these are the wires that run from the fto plug to the sensor itself.

His comments also confirm my investigation on the wiring diagram that wires 3 and 4 which are red and black are the heater wires.

The only thing I can summise is that the wiring is wrong for a 95 FTO as opposed to what it says in the wiring manual for a 98 FTO.

So I dont think its the wiring, unless there is a way of testing which wire does what using a multimeter.

Look forward to your reply mate

Tom

[I8A4RE]

Ok i just checked my car and thats how i have mine so you have wired it correctly . I tried not to mention the FTO plug side in my DIY as it just confuses people especially me lol.

Is there power to the heater wire? Just check it with multi meter make sure you get the right wires though

So whats left? I been racking my brain all day

[tompocz]

Ive been racking my brains for 6 weeks !! LOL

Im lining up a guy who is an auto-electrician - my mate recons he is smart and Im hoping to line him up cheaply to run some diagnostics.

Im at present looking into what's involved in taking off, checking and cleaning the throttle body, so as to also ensure that the butterfly and other components dont have any gunk on them.

All I can do is check, check, check until the diagnostics. I got my part from dstocks today - the input shaft sensor - will be inserting it this weekend and will provde snaps/photos as well.

I musst say that my wife has been extremely patient, given that she sees me putting a LOT of effort into resolving this issue.

Thanks for your help

Tom

[tompocz]

Input Shaft Speed Sensor Replacement

Well, I did some more work on the weekend, namely to replace the Input Shaft Speed Sensor and also to clean the Throttle Body Thanks to Bennoz to confirm the procedure that I used for this as well - onya mate.

1. Locate Input Shaft Speed Sensor.
The first thing to do is to remove the Air intake, the Battery (always disconnect negative off first, always re-connect positive first), battery plate, so as to make more room to work with.



2. Undo Connectors.
I found that by undoing the connectors it gave you more room to work with using a socket as well as when leveraging with a screw driver. I was also concious of not applying too much pressure or movement to the cables for the sake of them being too brittle and potentially breaking them, given that these cables were 13 years old (1995 GPX)

You must also undo the Transmission Control Cable nut - relativelt painless excercise.



3. Removing Cable Bracket Bolt.
You need to remove the bolt that holds the bracket that the control cable uses. Part of this bracket in fact sits over the bolt that you need to remove so as to remove the Input Shaft Speed Sensor. I sprayed some WD40, and with a swivel socket, removed the bolt.



4. Removing Cable Bracket.
Removing or moving the actual bracket is easy, if you know how. I was fortunate enough to come across another FTO web site which highlighted that this bracket is in fact glued down,and to remove it you simply had to pry it off. I gingerly used a flat-head screw drivver to "leverage" it off.



5. Replacing Input Shaft Speed Sensor.
Removing the sensor was now relatively painless. As can be seen, once inserted, the bottom of the sensor touches some form of contact within the trans.





6. Bolt/Gromet.
One thing I did notice when re-installing everything back is that there is a plastic gromet which is used by the bolt. I nearly didnt see this as it had dropped away when I initially removed the bolt. Only by checking first the area did I notice this gromet.



7. Control Cable.
Also you need to take note of how you bolt up the control cable. The thread/screw is NOT perfectly roung but oval hence its important to ensure it is inserted propely into the hole when tightenning the nut.




Cleaning Throttle Body

1. Removing Throttle Body.
Removing the throttle body was quite easy. Once removed just be wary of the metal gasket not dropping off or falling down.



Removing the accelerator cable took some time. In order to do so, you have to turn or press down on the spring so as to allow the cable to become slack and eventually pry the little knob and cable out from an openning. A small mirror is invaluable in seeing how its connected, and also identifying how the sensor connectors are clipped on. The last thing I wanted was a broken clip for a sensor.

Also, when replacing the accel. cable back, make sure that it sitsin the black metal groove or guide.





The end result of once the throttle body is removed is as follows. The only gotcha I can see is a little spillage of radiator fluid when the two hoses are removed.



2. Cleaning Throttle Body.
I used some CRC Carb Cleaner. This studd is pretty potent in its stench so be carefull, unless you want to get high. The use of a small paint brush and an old (or the wife's) tooth brush also assists you in cleaning the Throttle Body. The end result speaks for itself. Also dont forget to clean/spray where the idle screw is as this also collects a LOT of carbon.





Suffice to say, this little excercise did not help in resolving my idling problem.

I am now purchasing a coolant temperature sensor unit (MD177572), as I have read somewhere that this unit when faulty also causes idling problems. I spoke to mate who has a mate who know another mate who is a cluey auto sparky and he said that in most instances that these coolant sensor units are also a culprit. Im going to see him this Thursday as he has the tools to plug into the ECU and monitor the car.

Given that this sensor unit is setting me back about $30 (thanks dstocks), Im not too fussed in potentially replacing the one in the car.

Will continue to keep you appriased of my challenges.

Cheers
Tom

[tompocz]

Well,

I took the FTO to the Auto sparky and he plugged into his nice, flash handheld computer ($10,000 worth with 2 software upgrades at $1000 a pop).

The following readings were evident

1. Tested Stepper motor and watched all the steps, it appeared fine
2. The TPS was at 646mV which is okay (should be between 400 and 1000mV)
3, At what it showed 4780mV. I read somewhere that anything above 4000mV is good.
4. The idle rpm was between 650-700 - tweaked this to be between 720 and 760.
5. Coolant Temp sensor fluctuated betwee 84-87C, dependant on when the fan kicked in.
6. Watched the settings under load of fan and all appeared fine.
7. No ECU error codes were evident or showing

Hence his thoughts were it could the fact that its a fuel issue and not an electrical one.

He stated that the pressure of the fuel could be too high and as such it was trying to pump more fuel thru the injectors. I had replaced the fuel filter, and whether the filter is now allowing more fuel to go thru it as opposed to a dirty one which partioally impedes flow/pressure, I dont know.

Any thoughts on the above.

Cheers
Tom

[I8A4RE]

Connect up a fuel pressure gauge to see if its. If it is, could FPR, blockage in return line or something. But i woudnt go replacing stuff without checking it out first. You can buy a gauge for about $60 well worth the money. In saying that i have just purchased a new FPR for my car so i can send you my old FPR if you want to test it, but wont be till next week when i recieve my adapter plate. I dont want any money for it, but its just whether you can wait or not.

GL
Simon

[tompocz]

Thanks Simon for that - I will take you up on the offer for the FPR.

Already started reading about the fuel issue in the Workshop Manual.

Chapter 13A-75 is very interesting

I also found the measurements for fuel pressure

After reading the manual. it also states that high fuel pressure can be due to either a binding valve in the FPR (which requires replacement) or that there is a clogged fuel return hose or pipe (which means just to clean it).

Now I just have to find where the fuel return hose is !!



I need to do some more checking on the car - wife is getting slightly irked as she wants to drive it, and I want to fix it so she doesnt complain - cant win either way !!

Cheers
Tom

[I8A4RE]

After reading the manual. it also states that high fuel pressure can be due to either a binding valve in the FPR (which requires replacement) or that there is a clogged fuel return hose or pipe (which means just to clean it).

. If it is, could be FPR, blockage in return line or something

About time i got something right on this thread

Now I just have to find where the fuel return hose is !!

Look at fuel filter, it should be the hose that runs down the side of it but doesnt connect to it. Also if you follow the fuel line into the rail from the fuel filter then it comes out into a little pipe on drives side then into the fron bank fuel rail. Then theres the FPR on the end of the rail, then a hose (not the little vacuum hose) from there back to the fuel filter (but not into the fuel filter just beside it) then it leads down the firewall underneath car back to tank

I need to do some more checking on the car - wife is getting slightly irked as she wants to drive it, and I want to fix it so she doesnt complain - cant win either way !!

Can you ever win with females

[tompocz]

Thanks for the advice Simon - Explanation was great - will look, see, confirm and post photo so as to double check with you.

As to

About time i got something right on this thread

it aint a competition but great minds think alike and I trully appreciate using you as a litmus test. - trust but verify !!

As to

Can you ever win with females

the answer is an emphatic NO. I believe to this day that men were genetically engineered to suffer pain.

What I HATE about women the most is when they treat you like a s.e.x object - I keep on telling them that I have a mind - and I hate it when they oogle at your groin as well - they always give you a complex

(I just cut myself LOL especially at 6.00 in the morn)

Cheers
Tom

[I8A4RE]

it aint a competition but great minds think alike and I trully appreciate using you as a litmus test. - trust but verify !!

No its not , i just hate being wrong

What I HATE about women the most is when they treat you like a s.e.x object - I keep on telling them that I have a mind - and I hate it when they oogle at your groin as well - they always give you a complex

haha, yeah know the feeling

[payaya]

Still seems a stepper issue to me??? Are you sure you bought the correct stepper? Give it a test just in case its faulty.