FTO - EVO

Astro · Post by **Astro** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:12 am

I know this may sound crazy, but I wish to ask who is into the technical part of FTO's and EVO's. I am planning to go for a 4wd FTO using an evo engine gearbox diff etc.. I am thinking of using the rear and probably the front cross member from an evo and fit to the FTO. I do understand that I will need to reinforce the chassis and make space for the propeller shaft not to mention all the rest. Any suggestions for which donor EVO I shall go for? And any other technical suggestions I should look for ?

Thanks

SilentBobMk2 · Post by **SilentBobMk2** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:21 am

I would suggest talking to Steve(aka smorison) or the guys at UniqueAutoSports, because this was one project that steve said they were interested in doing.....

apparently from an evo 4(is that right?) the drivetrain and engine pretty much slip straight in with only minimal modifications to some areas(like the petrol tank) required....

Would definatly be a cool thing to see

SilentBob

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:43 pm

first of all, how much have you got to spend? ...or are you mechanically qualified to take on this job yourself? it's not as easy as it sounds... sure it's like a cut n' paste job from one chassis to another, but you're looking at hundreds of man hours worth of labor, not to mention the exorbitant costs of getting the bastard engineer-approved

...

sure it can be done, in fact with money anything can be done but really, how much can you spend?

as a rough guide, the fabrication costs alone (not incl parts) will be enough to buy you a spare FTO... hope i'm not pouring cold water on you here though'!

Astro · Post by **Astro** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:28 pm

Iâ€™m not a technical person but a friend of mine who is qualified will help me out. Cash is another thing. I will start buy buying an evo (rolled) and an FTO (possible without engine) and start from there. The other cost would mainly be custom modifications and labour. It i run out of cash in the middle, Iâ€™ll wait and do it slowly.

Itâ€™s a good thing that someone else has the intensions to do it. Two minds are better then one. I got some info about which EVO to go for from other forums, and they suggested going for an evo5 upwards. As this was never made, no one can verify which model is best. I do wish to check the difference between evo4 and 5.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:43 pm

evo 4 and evo 5 has the same wheelbase length, but evo 5 has a wider track.

driveline components are essentially the same between the two i believe.

just wondering how do u intend to buy an FTO without a motor in it? if you are looking for one, best to find a GS 1.8 model because the engine mounts should bolt the 4G63B motor straight in... (afterall they are from the same 4G family engine...)

I had initially wanted to do this as well, but the costs simply do not justify the on-road gains... but then again that's the price for being unique!

Astro · Post by **Astro** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:31 pm

GPXXX wrote:evo 4 and evo 5 has the same wheelbase length, but evo 5 has a wider track.

driveline components are essentially the same between the two i believe.

just wondering how do u intend to buy an FTO without a motor in it? if you are looking for one, best to find a GS 1.8 model because the engine mounts should bolt the 4G63B motor straight in... (afterall they are from the same 4G family engine...)

I had initially wanted to do this as well, but the costs simply do not justify the on-road gains... but then again that's the price for being unique!

The most important to look at is the rear crossmember. the wheelbase length will still need to be modifed.

The engine mountings on a GS are similar to the EVO ? Is this an assumption or a fact?

I never looked into a GS, but isn't there loads of missing bits from a GPX. Like electric mirrors. manual A/C etc ?

Post by **smorison** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:26 am

you can take any FTO if you are serious get a GS as that is simply a 1.8l engine.

the EVO4 is the easiest as the car is the closest to the FTO as you will find. you will need a wrecked one (i can't find one here in australia as they all get taken by rally enthusiasts)....

you will need basically everything out of the car

engine
gear box
drive train
suspension
steering components
computers
AC the whole lot (makes it easier)

from the FTO you keep:
the shell
interior (if you want to keep it)

the biggest problems we've noted to date are:

1. where to put the exahust it may be able to go down next to the drive shaft but it'll be tight + requires modification to the fuel tank

2. mounting the engine + gearbox in the car.

3. finding and a complete EVO4.

the project was going to cost me about 20,000 maybe a bit more.

Astro · Post by **Astro** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:57 am

smorison wrote:you can take any FTO if you are serious get a GS as that is simply a 1.8l engine.

the EVO4 is the easiest as the car is the closest to the FTO as you will find. you will need a wrecked one (i can't find one here in australia as they all get taken by rally enthusiasts)....

you will need basically everything out of the car

engine
gear box
drive train
suspension
steering components
computers
AC the whole lot (makes it easier)

from the FTO you keep:
the shell
interior (if you want to keep it)

the biggest problems we've noted to date are:

1. where to put the exahust it may be able to go down next to the drive shaft but it'll be tight + requires modification to the fuel tank

2. mounting the engine + gearbox in the car.

3. finding and a complete EVO4.

the project was going to cost me about 20,000 maybe a bit more.

That is what I wanted to hear. WOW Thanks.

Isn't the modification on the rear end which is the difficult part. I have seen EVO engines installed on FTO's but i dont know about the gearbox.
Will a full roll cage be enough the strengthen the car ?

When will you start this project simon ?

Post by **smorison** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:07 am

Astro wrote: That is what I wanted to hear. WOW Thanks.

Isn't the modification on the rear end which is the difficult part. I have seen EVO engines installed on FTO's but i dont know about the gearbox.
Will a full roll cage be enough the strengthen the car ?

When will you start this project stephen?

i'm not going ot do it anytime soon got different priorities now... that dont include the car (although the Unique FTO project is still going ahead)

the rear needs very little modification to get it going. a bit of welding for mounts for the diff and revised suspension but essientally they are the same chassis and some parts are identical

rollcages are soo intrusive (i hate them)... i would rather look at strengthing the car in a less obvious way like adding bracing to the lower side of the car.

Astro · Post by **Astro** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:12 am

smorison wrote:
i'm not going ot do it anytime soon got different priorities now... that dont include the car (although the Unique FTO project is still going ahead)

the rear needs very little modification to get it going. a bit of welding for mounts for the diff and revised suspension but essientally they are the same chassis and some parts are identical

rollcages are soo intrusive (i hate them)... i would rather look at strengthing the car in a less obvious way like adding bracing to the lower side of the car.

SO Unique FTO project are already started it ?
when you revised suspensions, do you mean not off the shelf suspensions ?

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:26 am

most of the Evo-engined FTOs that you've seen on the net are actually adapted onto the std FTO gearbox but they are still in FWD form.

the rear end will have to be completely re-engineered in order to fit the rear diff, tailshafts, subframe, crossmembers, control arms and so on.

to do this you can either cut the entire floorplan from the Evo chassis and graft it onto the FTO (and i can assure you it's not as easy as it sounds) or make extensive modifications to the existing FTO floorplan such as enlarging th exhaust tunnel to fit the tailshafts, revised suspension towers, crossmembers, fuel tank etc....

if you can really be bothered to go through all these trouble, you might as well settle for something cheaper and easier to obtain parts locally like the CC Lancer GSR, WRX etc since it involves pretty much the same amount of work....

how on earth you can get it all engineer-certified for road rego is another thing altogether!

to start with, most workshops i've approached actually laughed off the idea and thought i wasn't being serious (though I really had the money then) but yeah if you have the connections in the automotive mechanics / engineering industry then it'll certainly help!

Astro · Post by **Astro** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:54 am

smorison wrote:the project was going to cost me about 20,000 maybe a bit more.

that figure is excluding FTO and wrecked EVO ?

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:53 pm

Astro wrote:
smorison wrote:the project was going to cost me about 20,000 maybe a bit more.
that figure is excluding FTO and wrecked EVO ?

i believe so, yes....

MarkFTO · Post by **MarkFTO** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:43 am

from my inital looks into this the GS engine mounts are different to the ones needed to fit the engine, however they can be adapted by making a sort of hybrid mount. The main problems come from as said above where to put the exhaust after fitting the prop shaft (a custom one will need to be made too as its just too long

) and the reengineering of back end of the car to accomodate all the extra bits. Oh in addition it looks as though the EVO box may foul the bulkhead but i cannot be sure on this as we have only had a brief look into this.

//\\//\\ark

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:20 am

Just got back from malaysia and was talking to a workshop up there that converts lancers to evos and was told that there is a FTO in Malayasia that has been converted to 4WD using the evo running gear, I tried to find out more about it and i am hoping that next time i visit there might be able to get a look at it and take some pics and find out some information.

Will let you know when i find out more information.

dan_vegas · Post by **dan_vegas** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:33 pm

I believe the 4WD conversion was done over here in the UK.
I think MarkFTO knows a bit about it.

Blaze · Post by **Blaze** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:17 pm

other than all opinions and thoughts above, I think FTO body is just too flexible/soft(in terms of the construction) for a 4WD

. FTO was originally designed to enter "touring" car class. Remember this: Fresh Touring Origination. Where as Lan Evo is a rally bred. You still can beef the body up, but after all they come to economy consideration, unless you are kind of mods nut. For me, I would just buy a second hand evo.

Like they say: 2WD different up there, will make 30gran different down here.

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:05 am

Blaze, I'm intrigued by your comments and would love it if you could expand more on this.

I'm certainly not saying your wrong, and by all means I could be wrong, but I was unaware of any consumer models of AWD vehicles having a major body improvement over their non-AWD versions.

For example:
Evo vs standard Lancer
WRX vs standard Imprezza
Celica GT4 vs normal Celica
etc.

I also find this interesting as since the mid '90s there has been a move to smaller rally cars (Corolla, Focus etc) and the standard versions of these cars can be bought for around $20K and certainly aren't renowned for their sitff chasis.

While I understand that the actual rally cars are further modified with rollcages and other structual supports, I have not been aware of the issue you mention in your post, in normal consumer orientated street cars, and so I'd love to find out more.

I would have thought the FTO was as good or better than the Lancer, and I didn't think there was any major structual differences between the normal Lancer the the EVO.

MarkFTO · Post by **MarkFTO** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:04 am

i have spoken to people who have performed the 4wd conversion to the fto, however my grasp of japanese is non existant and their english is a bit ropey so i dont have many details yet, however im working on it. The car is currently running approximately 600bhp

//\\//\\ark

Blaze · Post by **Blaze** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:18 pm

well ruchi, it does not need to be expanded, since you answered what you are unaware of. Sorry that I would not go far investigating structural differences between fto and evo.
If you want to know more about FTO chasis stiffness and realted issue, I would suggest to submit your enquiry to MMC and cc to Mizushima Motor Vehicle Works (i.e: plant that manufactured fto) both in Japan.
Unfortunately, I dont have the contact detail atm.
After all, I am saying it is not impossible to convert an fto into 4wd. Ofcourse street version 4WD or their non 4wd version doesnt have rollcage, simply because they dont need it.

It was just my thought, as i said. so, take it easy, buddy.