Tip Box Problems...

Got a problem with your FTO? ask about it here

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TCGPX
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Tip Box Problems...

Post by TCGPX »

Ok, before anyone flames me, I know this has been covered many times...

I have also searched many times.

Problem is most of the people having these problems don't post what the solution to their problems were :cry:

Trans is a 4 speed tip in 1995 GPX.

Symptoms:
Drives fine for 10 mins or so, then starts to "slip" and hesitate on changing gears.
Gets worse over couple of mins, eventually slamming into limp mode. Car really dies hard, like it's dropping back into first gear at bout 30 kays, then goes into the dreaded 3rd gear limp mode.
Still got plenty of drive considering it's in 3rd gear, at 60 kays it's quite normal to drive (Minus 1st, 2nd and 4th gears...).
Checked error codes on trans ECU. Getting code 42: 2nd gear out of spec.
I have changed the oil to genuine Mitsi fluid of the correct rating. Oil that came out was black as night, but had no burnt smell. Suspect that the car yard I bought the car from didn't service the trans as agreed to at the time of sale :twisted:
(Had another problem just after I bought the car and found out their mechanic was a gibbon...) So chances are it's very old trans fluid.

Test drive-
Still same problem.
Read a few threads saying bout the input shaft speed sensors being suspect, so bought a S/H sensor (Didn't want to wait a week to have a new one one shipped from oversees or be analy raped for local mitsi dealer prices) to check if this was the problem.
Plan was, if it fixed it, then buy a new one...
After it was fitted, still the same problem...

Took it to a trans mechanic to look at who, of course, want to rebuild the box. ($2000 to $2500 estimated) However these guys have never done an FTO before and apart from saying it's "the same box as lancers have" and mentioning plates that can wear inside and pumps and solenoids that can fail, couldn't give me a straight answer on what it could be.

So...
I'm assuming (hoping) it's not a torque converter as oil didn't smell burnt, still got plenty of drive, and most people with TC problems don't seem to get error codes.

Points more towards sensor problems, but I've only found people with input shaft speed sensor problems, none with output side probs. Figured the chances of getting another lemon input sensor S/H were pretty slim.

Questions:
Has anyone had the same symptoms and if so, what fixed the problem?
Has anyone had an output shaft sensor pack up on them?
Does anyone know of reputable trans places in Adelaide with experience working on FTOs?
Any other info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
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Bennoz
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Post by Bennoz »

Strange.... the usual suspect for a code 42 is the input sensor. Chances you picked up a shot sensor? Can you borrow one of a working car?
TCGPX
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Post by TCGPX »

That's what I thought...

Sensor was from a front cut at the wreckers, helped em get it out so woulda thought it'd be OK. Coulda just been very unlucky and picked the faulty part that made the original owner scrap it... LOL.

They're a bit of a pain to get to, but definitely an option to see bout borrowing one. Couple of members here have tips, have to ring round today.
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khunjeng
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Post by khunjeng »

there is nothing really special about the FTO tip box these days. If you have a good auto tranny place (which are far and few between) it would be no drama.

An auto has a whole bunch of solanoids and bands I have had a few autos shift with thud cos of a dodge solanoid for 2nd gear. - it has a bad shift and wont come in and out for gear. Usually starts with a loud thud.. but I'm no auto tranny expert.

Did you find it shifts crap in all gears - up and down...or just up to 2nd or down to 2nd for example.

If its one gear..I would suspect a solinoid. If its plain rooted then the sensor would be my guess - which you have sussed already. I havnt got my FTO manuals atm but I'm pretty sure there is a test prcedure in there for testing the speed sensor. Have a look for it,.
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Bennoz
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Post by Bennoz »

Yeah the diagnosis procedure on the box is pretty comprehensive in the manual. Its in the downloads section here if you haven't already got it Trav.
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Post by eThix »

Dude i got my torque converter repaired for $800 :) (Joe and Ricks is the place)
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Post by TCGPX »

OK, tried a known working sensor over the weekend (Thanx to Phantom and Glamorous for being the donors).
Still the same problem, back to square one.

khunjeng-
My mechanic recommended the place I'm dealing with and I'd trust him with my life, it's just they've never done an FTO before. Might get him to drop out the trans and take it to the trans shop...
He's been tied up with a lot of cars from the Classic Adelaide Rally over the week, even before the weekend he'd spent 4 days working and even sleeping at the workshop, LOL, so he hasn't seen the car yet. I'm taking it there this arvo.
I've mainly been doing short test runs round the block, but now that you mention it, it does seem to be 2nd gear shifts it's having the most trouble with.
Hasn't done so many shifts 3rd into 4th, but they are definitely better than shifting up into or out of second. I cringe about second gear when testing it.
And yes, it started with a nasty "thud" as you put it.
You may not be an expert, but you know a lot more than most...
eThix wrote:Dude i got my torque converter repaired for $800 :) (Joe and Ricks is the place)
He he, I've seen a lot of people recommend them, sounds like they know their stuff, but Queensland is a long drive from Adelaide to get a trans fixed, especially in limp mode!!! :lol:

I'll keep this thread updated with as much info as I can for future reference by anyone with the same issues that knows how to use the search button...
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eThix
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Post by eThix »

Well what they do is,
remove the gear box and send it to Vic and get it repaired, then the just put it back in :)
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Post by FtoSam »

hrmmm

I'd suggest giving Rik a Call...


07 55 320 706


tell him sam with the Turbo FTO sent you and he'll make sure to look after you...

Say you heard that he sends the box to Vic... Ask him where abouts...

Get your mechanic to get it out and send it there...
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If you need good deal on photography, let me know.
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khunjeng
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Post by khunjeng »

whats the deal no1 in QLD has an idea how to fix an auto box?

sounds like a solinoids/piston need replacing. Always goes in the 1-2nd one cos it gets the most use.

I remember when it first happened to me, I took it to a few places who had no friggen ideas. I eventually took it to this place (which I got to for autos only) who also did my air con last time also and replaced the condenser cos my old one was farked.

Find a good auto place...go see what they say. Usually some will specalise in it. I dont see why you should send it half way accross the country.
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Post by TCGPX »

OK, update...

Spoke to my mechanic who hooked it up to the matrix while we went for a drive.

Wasn't really giving us much info about the trans fault, but he showed me some of the data you can get from it while driving... Pretty cool stuff.

He recommended another trans mechanic who even plays around with tip ecu programs and stuff too.

Spoke to him on the phone and he was right on the ball.

Note to people with similar problems: As suggested by the trans mechanic, driving in tip gave me a lot more time before limp mode kicked in... Handy to know when taking it to the doc.

Took it up there today, they've done FTO's before, lancers as well as plenty of rally cars with same model tip box. They've got a few ways to trick it up a bit for me to improve shifts and strengthen it up a bit while it's in bits too.

I'll do a wrap up post when I get it back saying what was wrong and what they did for the archives...
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Post by eThix »

Sweet nice work :) how much is this costing ya if you don't mined?
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Post by TCGPX »

I'll have an accurate quote soon, but estimate is 2k to 2.5k.
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khunjeng
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Post by khunjeng »

you havnt actually stated what the issue is or was. for 2.5 k i would just buy another FTO LOL
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Post by TCGPX »

Ok, update time.

Picked up the car this morning. Very happy with the results.

The fault was caused by a seal on the trans fluid pump giving up which in turn went through the pump itself and damaged it. This is why it would drive fine when cold, but fault and get worse as it warmed up and the trans fluid thinned out.

Although I haven't given it much yet (running it in), the mods made to the valve body are good. It's quite subtle, but shifts are slightly quicker and very smooth. At low throttle you barely notice it shifting at all, even compared to when I first bought the car you could always feel the shift more. It's hard to describe, but instead of "changing" gears, it almost feels like it just "rolls" into the next gear. Can't wait to get her up into Mivec range and put it through it's paces. That'll be the real test...

So there it is, one little piece of rubber breaking and going wayward can cause a lot of problems!
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poposay
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Post by poposay »

Hi,

I have the same problem as yours. I am in Adelaide too .Would you please give me your contact detail or places you go to get fixed?

thanks brother.

My phone number 0421502509. if you can ,please give me a call.. Thanks very much.Really appreciated.

Terry
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Post by AMACHA »

TCGPX wrote:Ok, update time.

Picked up the car this morning. Very happy with the results.

The fault was caused by a seal on the trans fluid pump giving up which in turn went through the pump itself and damaged it. This is why it would drive fine when cold, but fault and get worse as it warmed up and the trans fluid thinned out.

Although I haven't given it much yet (running it in), the mods made to the valve body are good. It's quite subtle, but shifts are slightly quicker and very smooth. At low throttle you barely notice it shifting at all, even compared to when I first bought the car you could always feel the shift more. It's hard to describe, but instead of "changing" gears, it almost feels like it just "rolls" into the next gear. Can't wait to get her up into Mivec range and put it through it's paces. That'll be the real test...

So there it is, one little piece of rubber breaking and going wayward can cause a lot of problems!
so how much did it cost you all up?iv noticed with my manual car its harder to change when the car heats up do you think this could bea pump issue?
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Post by Storm »

AMACHA wrote:
TCGPX wrote:Ok, update time.

Picked up the car this morning. Very happy with the results.

The fault was caused by a seal on the trans fluid pump giving up which in turn went through the pump itself and damaged it. This is why it would drive fine when cold, but fault and get worse as it warmed up and the trans fluid thinned out.

Although I haven't given it much yet (running it in), the mods made to the valve body are good. It's quite subtle, but shifts are slightly quicker and very smooth. At low throttle you barely notice it shifting at all, even compared to when I first bought the car you could always feel the shift more. It's hard to describe, but instead of "changing" gears, it almost feels like it just "rolls" into the next gear. Can't wait to get her up into Mivec range and put it through it's paces. That'll be the real test...

So there it is, one little piece of rubber breaking and going wayward can cause a lot of problems!
so how much did it cost you all up?iv noticed with my manual car its harder to change when the car heats up do you think this could bea pump issue?
You dont have a pump on the manual.
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AMACHA
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Post by AMACHA »

what wuld u say it could be then?
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Storm
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Post by Storm »

AMACHA wrote:what wuld you say it could be then?
More than likely a change of gearbox oil will make an improvement, when it gets hot it gets thinner so things dont slide so well.
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