FTO GPX VS INTEGRA VTIR

maximus · Post by **maximus** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:08 pm

I am seriously thinking of buying a manual gpx but have a huge problem.
My mate has a 1994 maual honda integra vtir. It has a 1.8lt DOHC 16valve VTEC YO!!!!! engine at 170hp. I no spec wise the gpx is more powerful but is it really. Does anyone no for sure. Would it keep up, thrash it or barley keep up.
I really need your help guys as when i purchase the gpx we are havin a race. One last thing guys would it change anything if i got a tiptronic.

Post by **Supplanter** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:19 am

The tiptronic transmission will make the car slower, around .5 seconds from 0-100, not sure about the race but I think it would be close.

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:43 am

Personally I'd be deciding which gearbox I want based on how I'm going to drive the car on a day-to-day basis, not which is going to be better to beat my friend!

There's more to a car than just performance, such as drivability and looks. The FTO is a beautiful car to drive, and in terms of looks it leaves the Integra for dead!

While the manual will give you better response, the tip is an easier drive and well appreciated in peak hour traffic!

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:13 am

i would also consider what modifications you will be thinking of doing to it, also be aware that there can be quite a differance in the performance of the car depending what sort of condition the motor is in,ie; how it has been serviced and driven

I would be asking to get a leak down test done on the engine by someone reputable, or get some one you know to do it.

maximus · Post by **maximus** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:04 am

i was thinking putting in new extractors new exhaust and a new air kit, still deciding. Don't know at the moment wats worth installing for value for money.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:59 am

if you are ever considering turboing it i would go for a auto,

but if you are not turboing it i would go manual

but if you have a lot of peak hour driving to do, consider the auto option

the manual is deffinately more fun to drive

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:39 am

the VTiR in manual form is 125kw (assuming you're talking about the DC2 chassis) and weighs in at just a tad under the GPX manual...

the last time we did a test run on my friend's DC2 VTiR (with Spoon exhaust, K&N filter and Mugen extractors), we only managed a best of mid-7s on his RSM for the 0-100 sprint...

a stock standard GPX manual will run those times very easily, and if you launch well you'd be getting very low 7s... with some proper breathing mods and clever tuning, high 6s will not be out of the question.

if you intend to have the GPX see a lot of traffic light GPs, i will not recommend the tiptronic because i've heard that it is very hard to go any quicker than 10s (?!) for the 0-100 because you cannot rev launch it like the manual...

sure the manual may be a little tiresome in oeak hour traffic but after a while you get used to it, just like anybody else...

My 2c...

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:59 am

theres not really any point of comparing specs to specs, as seem FTO's to deviate heaps from each other.

You could be lucky and pick up a freak, but in turn also pick up a dud

The VTEC YO!!!!! has a more usuable power band, should be close.

my FTO GR has been a dud since i got it! Never have beaten late series commodore or falcon before! What makes it worse there everywhere!

Im talking about myself here, but mines a gutless piece of crap, and i wouldnt miss it if i had to get rid of it. Maybe the handling thats bout it

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:20 am

payaya wrote: The VTEC YO!!!!! has a more usuable power band, should be close.

i would beg to differ, because the V6 has 200cc more capacity hence it would have more usable torque throughout the revband (particularly in the low range) in contrast to the 1.8 4-potter... i know you're saying it's "close", but you can definitely feel the clear lacking difference between the two...

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:35 am

on specs yes. Totally agree the 200 extra CC's should be the FTO a better power curve and torque curve.

But look at a VTEC YO!!!!! dyno graph and you'll see why they have that extra big of urge. Not all engines are the same. More capacity doesnt always mean better usuable torque.

EG

5.4L Boss 260 V8 compared to a 5.7L LS1. Which one has the more user friendly torque curve? The 300CC less Boss motor.

Also the VTEC YO!!!!! is geared lot higher as well!

But there are so many other factors other thank power to weight to keep in mind.

Diff Ratios
Gear Ratios
How well the car puts in power to the ground
How fast the manual shift is

etc.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:46 am

payaya wrote:on specs yes. Totally agree the 200 extra CC's should be the FTO a better power curve and torque curve.

But look at a VTEC YO!!!!! dyno graph and you'll see why they have that extra big of urge. Not all engines are the same. More capacity doesnt always mean better usuable torque.

the reason why the VTEC YO!!!!! shows an extra bit of urge on the dyno chart is due to the fact that early generations of their variable valve timing technology was not tuned for smooth transition (compared to the i-VTEC YO!!!!! which is more linear and more seemless).

without trying to be argumentative, i guess the point i'm only trying to make is that you can give me a dyno chart from a VTEC YO!!!!! 1.8 (VTiR), and I'll draw a chart similar to it but at few hundred RPMS lower and a few dozen HP more (at the same scale) to roughly illustrate the power delivery of the MIVEC V6.

but i agree, not all engines are the same but since we are comparing the VTiR and the GPX, i just thought i'd share some relevance (based on personal experience and published facts) here...

PEACE!

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:50 am

true, goes both ways i guess! well both have crap torque curves and you both will get trampled by the S15 next to you.

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:22 am

payaya wrote:true, goes both ways i guess! well both have crap torque curves and you both will get trampled by the S15 next to you.

Except if u are Scracy or Danny!!!!!!!

maximus · Post by **maximus** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:10 pm

thanks for the imput so far guys. just woundering if i did get a tip and chucked in a turbo not a to big one how much would it roughly cost. is it to much of a hassel. Would there b a heap of benefit or trouble on the long run. Im not just doin this so i can rip my mate, its coz i love a bit of power. i was thinking of getting a skyline but theres something about the fto that just draws me. also would it matter if i got a gpx or just a straight v6

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:48 pm

I recommend you do a search on this forum, as there are a number of threads that cover turbos.

BlkJet is currently trying to get a turbo going for around $5K, using 2nd hand and reco parts.

Dannyboyau & Scracy already have turbos and are a wealth of knowledge, and generally reckon it's about $10K to do it new and properly.

RPW are working on a turbo kit and all sorts of questions have been raised about this.

Alternatively, any performance place local to you, that can install a turbo into a VTEC YO!!!!! engine should be able to install it into a Mivec engine, as there are similar complexities.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:04 pm

maximus wrote:thanks for the imput so far guys. just woundering if i did get a tip and chucked in a turbo not a to big one how much would it roughly cost. is it to much of a hassel. Would there b a heap of benefit or trouble on the long run. Im not just doin this so i can rip my mate, its coz i love a bit of power. i was thinking of getting a skyline but theres something about the fto that just draws me. also would it matter if i got a gpx or just a straight v6

well scracy has a 4-spd tip and it is equipped with a GT28 ball bearing turbo running on 7psi which is enough to get 0-100 in a claimed 4.5s... you would need to upgrade your torque convertor though'.

as far as cost goes, well depending on how much you can get your parts for but you're looking at anywhere between $6.5K to $10k+ easily... just bear in mind that there are no 'off-the-shelf' turbo kits that you can just bolt on for the FTO though', so a lot of the plumbing and tuning work will be custom jobs (which means more $$ involved). but at the end of the day, you don't need to try too hard to beat your friend's VTiR with your FTO (unless it's a Type-R) but if you want the thrill of having a turbo in something as unique as FTO, we'd strongly encourage it... I for one am in the middle of planning for this project as we speak...

Nickname · Post by **Nickname** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:09 am

Both Integra and FTO are good car, but if you want the torque, V6 engine for sure as it will give you more smooth up to the red line, VTI-R's torque at low rev is very bad until you rev it up to the VTEC YO!!!!! range.
But for the conering, I think Integra will be better than the FTO, but not much.... coz both civic and integra also have a very good supension system. think about you want to fast on straight road or cornering as well before you buy it !

Jono · Post by **Jono** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:36 pm

this might sound funny, but i was playing GT and the FTO handle's heaps better than the Integra.....

Jono

Chiangstar · Post by **Chiangstar** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:13 pm

i've beaten quite a few integra vtir's...straight line...it does differ a lot from driver to driver and car to car though....its funny cos they always initiate the race cos they think theyll win....

Nickname · Post by **Nickname** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:04 pm

Play in GT is only a game, I use FTO can win many car as well, but for the real, the Integra suspension system is better than FTO. (Of course really depends how you going to modify). but for standard or similar modification, I sure Integra is better then FTO. I also driving FTO as well, but I do like Integra's conering, I do drive EK Civic with all stardard, it runs perfect in corner except it start roll at beginning. That's true what I feel !!