Samson wrote:90Kw at 3,500rpm on an NA FTO???
I think your dreamin mate...
I would expect around 50KW.
considering your lucky to get 95kw at 7,500rpm
And yeah my power just levels off at 3,500... not sure why... But It sure as sh*t doest feel like it levels off... Taking it for a good run this arvo (about 800km worth) so i'll get a better feel for it then.
95kw at the fly dude. Im guessing why power is leveling off is from a tune prob, restriction at intake/exhuast or turbo running out of puff.
Samson wrote:90Kw at 3,500rpm on an NA FTO???
I think your dreamin mate...
I would expect around 50KW.
considering your lucky to get 95kw at 7,500rpm
And yeah my power just levels off at 3,500... not sure why... But It sure as sh*t doest feel like it levels off... Taking it for a good run this arvo (about 800km worth) so i'll get a better feel for it then.
95kw at the fly dude. Im guessing why power is leveling off is from a tune prob, restriction at intake/exhuast or turbo running out of puff.
or the dyno is screwed.
its not screwed. Its restricted. Prob the boost and zorst. There is noting wrong with max power early...in fact thats heaps better than any of the std FTO curves.
An NA FTO curve is not 90 kw atw at 3500 more like 75....infact I dont know why we would even bring up a flywheel vs atw comparision as its just stupid. Sams setup is roughly double that of a std FTO atw.
I new zorst will see a distinct improvement. quicker spool and less restriction and probbaly a bigger hp number.
Then comes the rest of the engine and car holding up over time...but then again who cares...run it until it breaks and have fun.
Samson wrote:turbo is a Garrett GT-28
Boost is 5-6psi
Tuner has never done an fto and didnt know what to expect from it... other than that he was really busy when i picked it up and i mainly spoke to the chick behind the counter
GT-28 - but what are the specs? housing and compressor trim size, comp wheel size etc.
Should be around 300hp version I assume. So 135 well within its limits. This could run to 12-15 psi I would assume.
just to clarify im actually doing an engineering course atm and torque is basically the strengh and force behind momemtum (power) an example is diesel engines in 4wd they produce a lot of torque at a low range and less power to a comparitive normal sedan car engine of same capacity. the idea is that when you are 4 wheel driving u dont want heaps of power in the form of wheelspin, as this will get u bogged deep in sand, u need a slower, stronger more gradual application of power this there fore being torque. the amount of torque a car has depends a lot on setup of gear ratios and so forth , so in sams case the more torque u have means the better the application of power and the will to sustain that power for a longer range and higher speeds
Fulltiltorgasm wrote:just to clarify im actually doing an engineering course atm and torque is basically the strengh and force behind momemtum (power) an example is diesel engines in 4wd they produce a lot of torque at a low range and less power to a comparitive normal sedan car engine of same capacity. the idea is that when you are 4 wheel driving u dont want heaps of power in the form of wheelspin, as this will get u bogged deep in sand, u need a slower, stronger more gradual application of power this there fore being torque. the amount of torque a car has depends a lot on setup of gear ratios and so forth , so in sams case the more torque u have means the better the application of power and the will to sustain that power for a longer range and higher speeds
4WD use diesels because of its low power characteristics, diesels produce max torque and power at much lower rpm, perfectly suited to all terrain driving, pulling a caravan etc. Petrol engines are not suited to the above due to their peaky nature.
Torque has nothing to do with gear ratios its all engine. A nicely suited set of gear ratios can seem like it seem to produce more pulling power or torque but in the end its all your engine.
Your more likely to have a lot more wheelspin with a 4WD due to its low down characteristics, but in the end its more of its lazy low down performace which it why diesels are preferred in the work horse range.
Proud Owner Of a White ( Version R ) Aero Series 1998 Mitsubishi FTO 24v 2L Mivec Engine. Fresh Import.
[img]http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2568/fbsig.jpg[/img]
Quick question, auto or manual? =) Sorry for ignorance, I've only started reading the boards recently again.
Looks like an auto box to me with the torque curve at lower speeds dropping off for what I assume are gear changes. I don't see where you guys are pulling the 3500 rpm unless you're doing a conversion from the speed and gear ratio *blinks*
Also looks like it can't get enough air into the engine to me as well. Enough comments have been made about that so I'll shut up now =)
Oh, and a minor derail: Hi everyone, hope things are going well, they seem to be =)
It is a manual.
Its in 4th gear...
120km/h in 4th is around 3,800rpm i think.
Not getting enough air into the engine???
Im pushing 5psi into the engine. That will prob stay constant. Exhaust will be coming once i pay off all my fines from last weekend.
And i have no idea of the turbo specs...
FNTSY might know...
If you need good deal on photography, let me know.
Ah okay, it's just wierd with the curve at low end. If it was tire slip (assuming you're on a rolling road), torque would have plummetted.
Alas =)
Yeah 120km/h is around 3.8k rpm maybe a touch higher, I can't remember =)
This is speculation so it's all arm chair stuff, anyone as usual, please correct me if I'm spouting utter crap =P
So don't take my words for anything but personal observation that maybe misinformed. What I meant by not enough air is that you need a lot more volume at higher rpm to supply the air that the engine needs to get the same AFR (air fuel ratio).
If the engine is expecting a certain amount of air to be optimal and supply drops, the AFR decreases and you end up with more fuel than you can burn, basically ends up as wasted fuel that burns in the exhaust and you get a drop in expected performance. Mind you it's better to be rich than to get detonation by being lean, which usually means death to a turbo car =P
It'd be interesting to see the AFR and the boost levels interleaved with that graph.
AFR and torque is usually more interesting when tuning than raw power, as power is a function of torque, you can derive what is going to happen to your power curve with your torque graph.
Don't know much about turbos specifically myself, haven't gone much into what's out there.
Anyways, that you need to figure out why you're getting such a drop in torque after peak. At the moment, the best time do a gear change is some time after 4k rpm, maybe before 5k rpm as max pulling power is around there.
Have the cams been changed at all??? Standard MIVEC cams have a pretty flat torque profile if you can control that AFR. The comment on the graph seems to suggest your fixing something (a boost leak?) but the tuner might have left it there from the last run so I'm not going to read into that one.
Anyways, good luck with the tuning and stuff =) if anything, you should still expect peak torque to be still around the @6800 mark if it's mivec and you ahven't changed the cams. Cams determine the curve given perfect inputs. If it's not, then something's not right.
MIVEC has been lowered to around 4,000rpm or so i think.
Fuel should never run out.
New Walbro Fuel Pump
390cc Injectors (166 standard)
braided fuel lines.
AS far as air, I thought that running at 5psi ment that there was constantly 5psi of pressure getting forced into the engine. Raise it too much and bang engine. Would clutch slippage do this? cause in fourth gear the clutch clips around 120kmh with the foot down... it slips bad enough for people to see bits of smoke come out if im really giving it to it.
If you need good deal on photography, let me know.
Yeah, that's usually due to AFR getting too lean, and getting a ton of detonation.
Hmmmm, can I ask why the mivec point was lowered to that level? Just curious more than anything. I though the timing of the high cam might be a bit agressive for 4k rpm but then again, you've added a turbo so it could compensate.
5 psi = there's boost pressure of 5psi in the intake chamber, from memory the waste gate makes sure this pressure is maintained. However, if the turbo can't supply enough air that the engine requires + the volume of air to maintain that boost level, you will experience a drop in boost which will equate to a drop in power.
If you watch the boost gauge it should hold at 5psi as you climb, though if your turbo is too small, you'll see a decline in boost at the higher RPM.
If you're getting clutch slippage, then yeah, you should upgrade than anyways. I've never seen a clutch smoke before but if that's the case, definately.
It could explain the drop in power at higher rpm, I mean as the clutches work on the same principle as brake pads. So if the clutch material heats up, you might be starting to get fade, so it has less gripping power, which means it'd hold less torque.
Again speculation, but I'd upgrade the clutch from standard anyways, I don't think the FTO clutch was designed for that sort of output =)
Hey MAD...come to some Vic meetings! we need some young FTO doods.
Do you mean young as in age or as an member? His not that young in both btw
Eric, are u back in Vic now? If so, time for that drink which we missed last yr.
DISCLAIMER: The above text is the personal opinion of the author and does not represent the indisputable truth. The author is not responsible for any deaths, injuries or mental illness caused by the above statments.
Never noticed a drop in boost levels... my mates that were following me said they saw two lots of smoke...
1) OUt my exhaust. white puffs... I presume excess fuel as adam has the same thing
2) Darker smoke from under the car. (think thats clutch) only happened on highway when i booted it (only time clutch was seriously slipping)
My clutch is old... it slipped when i tried to burnout my old tyres... poor thing was due for replacement a long time ago... i have the new clutch... just gotta get a mechanic to put it in.. might just go to Joe and Rick... at least they wont f**k it up
If you need good deal on photography, let me know.
white is not fuel. Its either oil or the clutch. If it happens at startup then i would be worried...if not some oil is being burnt could be a number of things.
dark/black is excess fuel...prob always gonna happen under high load...better to be too rich than too lean.
When the clutch is slipping I have always seen white smoke...
Nah still in WA =) Should update my profile shouldn't I?
Planning to be in Melbourne in June so I should be floating around for a drink then =)
White smoke is something you always need to look into. Blue white smoke = oil leak and you need to get it looked into immediately =P
It's probably the clutch if it's only under heavy load, you'd see puffs of white smoke in normal driving if it was an oil problem.
as with the voltage, definately the new fuel pump =) I'm hoping it doesn't drop to 12V because if that's the case, you've got a power deficit whenever you load up the fuel pump, not a bad thing but you'll be draining your battery while you're under what =)
without a sub also!