The FTOA Oil Thread

gazeek · Post by **gazeek** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:44 am

Jeezuz .. now im confused .... I know very little about this subject ... Somone just do me a favour and answer me this ... What oil should i buy ? and rating ? ... 1995 FTO GPX, Tiptronic , no mods , runs at mid engine temp 24/7 .. Live in sydney , typical ambient temp is 26 lately ... Usually drive in Auto , but slide in and out of tip here and there at various lights

... changing around 6.5k when in tip ...

much appreciated ...

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:41 pm

I have the same car and i use Shell Helix 10w40 (semi synthetic (changed every 5000ks))

that should be fine for it.

if you really wanna fork out the extra dosh go for the 5w30 but be warned, its a synthetic fuel and therefore should be changed more often.
plus its twice the price.

so 10w40 (choose your brand loyalty and stick to it)

scarecrow · Post by **scarecrow** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:00 pm

Here's some advice, for gods sake check the amount of holes in your Z411 filter before installing it!

6 holes = big fat oprah winfrey tits (this is good)
8 holes = expensive and messy explosion of oil (this is bad)

I've fallen victim to this twice, with different brands of filter each time, all labeled Z411 but clearly different. I believe the thread size is not the same in both models which is what leads to the huge pissage of oil as soon as you fire the car up as the 8 holes one is significantly more difficult to screw on in the beginning, but not so difficult as to stop you installing it or make you really think twice.

gazeek · Post by **gazeek** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:14 am

So really , 10w40 is the rating I should go for ? ... And i should stick to the same brand ? .... So if I bought a redline 10w40 , I should keep buying a redline 10w40 , right ? ...

What about the magnatecs ? I see that around a bit ? .. Iv been told its pretty good ?

JOeJOe · Post by **JOeJOe** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:19 am

I use penzoil 10w40, $35 for 4-5ltr.

Recommended by our local Mr Pres.

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:19 pm

gazeek wrote:So really , 10w40 is the rating I should go for ? ... And i should stick to the same brand ? .... So if I bought a redline 10w40 , I should keep buying a redline 10w40 , right ? ...

Exactly

Magnatec is being fazed out in favour of castrols new "EDGE"

but all the different oil companies put different additives in them.
if u want the magnatec effect, just stick to your redline and buy some motorup.

gazeek · Post by **gazeek** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:37 pm

OK cool , thanks ...

one more question , realistically I doubt ill change my oil every 5000ks .. Well i will , but it wont happen all the time ... If it was only being changed every 10k .. Should this effect my choice in oil ? ... Ie , are there some oils that HAVE to be changed every 5k otherwise they start to sludge or something ? where as others will last longer before deteriorating ? ..

layzie · Post by **layzie** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:39 pm

hey SchumieFan

have you tried the new Castrol Edge yet? i've been using Magnatec in the past & jus wanna try these new Edge ones. I just got the 10W-60 from a mate but I also noticed there is a 0W-40 one also.

Not sure which one to try yet, both Syn.

Anyone else used these before? please let me know if its ok to use. Im in auckland BTW.

thanks

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:31 pm

If all else being equal, oil pressure is inversely proportionate to flow rate, the higher the pressure the lower the flow. You are starving your engine of precious oil during startup and before oil temp is up to operation temp by using a thick oil like a 10W60.

If u must, use a 10W40...the spread in this is large...not going into it again but more VII improvers = quicker breakdown = less protection.

I run a 5W30 now...runs perfect, no oil loss. People seem scared to go to the "thin oils" the oil of choice in the US is 0/5W20!

Magnetec = little to no Ester...leave crap deposits, but would do the job...just like a fat chick does the job....

its a synthetic fuel and therefore should be changed more often.

generally a semi syn will break down more quickly than a fully syn so I'm not sure where you got that idea from, its called sheering and is oils no1 enemy.

The norm in this forum is 10W40..which is ok.
I use a 5w30..no oil loss, better startup protection.
Track cars will need a 50-60...street cars..no need to go over 40.

If you want any oil, order form this guy...much cheaper than the stores...and a great guy : www.performancelub.com. I have some new reldine on order from him.

I have just sent off my oil analysis sample which will be back soon.

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:57 pm

gazeek wrote:OK cool , thanks ...

one more question , realistically I doubt ill change my oil every 5000ks .. Well i will , but it wont happen all the time ... If it was only being changed every 10k .. Should this effect my choice in oil ? ... Ie , are there some oils that HAVE to be changed every 5k otherwise they start to sludge or something ? where as others will last longer before deteriorating ? ..

Good base stocks will go for 10k no problems. POA oils such as M1 will easiliy do 10k been proven with oil analysis time and time again in differnety cars driven on the street.

If you want to help minimise deterioration..limit the spread of the numbers i.e. 10W40 would be better than 0W40.

Also take heed to regular oil filter changes...try using an OCI of 10k for both oil and filter...

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:46 am

khunjeng wrote:If all else being equal, oil pressure is inversely proportionate to flow rate, the higher the pressure the lower the flow. You are starving your engine of precious oil during startup and before oil temp is up to operation temp by using a thick oil like a 10W60.

If u must, use a 10W40...the spread in this is large...not going into it again but more VII improvers = quicker breakdown = less protection.

I run a 5W30 now...runs perfect, no oil loss. People seem scared to go to the "thin oils" the oil of choice in the US is 0/5W20!

you have to take into account a lot of variables as well... such as what the car will be used for and what sort of climate the car is in... its all been covered before... but i still say unless your an avid fto fan who gets up in the morning, rushes out and checks the tyre pressures, the oil, fuel, belts etc 10w 40 should be fine for all daily drivers, and if you run it for a good 10-12000 k's you wont be doing much damage (f**k i had an oil leak once and had to use diesel ash oil!(long story))

Layzie,

if i were you id stick to the 0w40, i havnt used it myself as im a shell man but i got sent some samples and info on it a few months back (i work at a race track)
as you said its a synthetic oil so it should in theory be changed every 3000k's but if you run it to 10 thou you should be fine (but i wouldnt if you could change it)

ummmmm yeah remember the fto isnt a performance car as such so going to a lower rated oil wont do much in the way of performance, but generally the lower rating the cleaner your engine will be. as i said, i use 10w40 and its perfect.... so why would i bother going to a 5/10w30, spend twice the price and have to change it in half the k's?

the only plus side to a thinner oil is less tappet noise, but after 500ks your pretty much back to square one....

hope its helped

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:56 am

All oils, no matter what their type, lose their viscosity or their protective role over time. When this happens, fresh oil is the solution.

Theoretically, the optimum time for changing oil should relate to a number of factors, and often the least important is how far your vehicle has traveled. Unfortunately, advised oil drain intervals are only averages, based on a typical type of driving. If driving conditions are more severe, a "classic" oil should be changed more frequently in order to maintain the maximum protection and cleanliness of the engine.

Other factors to consider are:

Number of cold starts.
Ambient temperature.
Effectiveness of crank case scavenging.
Wear of the engine.
Accuracy of carburetion during warm-up period.
Quality of fuel.
Type of driving.

Tips:

Use your dipstick regularly.
Don't run below the 'min' mark on your oil gage.
Don't worry about the engine oil turning black.
Always follow the manufacturer's recommendation in your handbook.

Heres a really good link if you are unsure what oil to use... (yes its a shell product!)

http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageServ ... _1128.html

(they dont have an FTO selection so if you have a GPX or GR, choose the Galant VR selection or the GTO. if you have a GS just choose the 1800 lancer selection)

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:36 am

I do UOAs on my oil mate. That tell me exactly what condition the oil is in.

as you said its a synthetic oil so it should in theory be changed every 3000k's but if you run it to 10 thou you should be fine (but i wouldnt if you could change it)

Thats just totally wrong mate. Its not a race car. UOAs on most full syn oils agree that VII improves have not broken down up to 10k. There is a worldwide forum dedicated to this. The only time this may be true is when using a Group III product such as the castol or even some of the Shell products you listed...apart form not using them, I would not use them for long. Good oils Group IV, POA and POE base stocks...10k plus no problems...proven time and time again.

ummmmm yeah remember the fto isnt a performance car as such so going to a lower rated oil wont do much in the way of performance, but generally the lower rating the cleaner your engine will be. as i said, i use 10w40 and its perfect.... so why would i bother going to a 5/10w30, spend twice the price and have to change it in half the k's?

th...dunno who is feeding you this but is wrong. My previous oil analysis on my oil at 10k showed to could go to 15k...with a 5W30...

The only situation where you might chnage it every 3k is if you car sees some track work...then you would be using a 60 weight anyway.

In addition, as it seems you didn't read what i wrote...a 10W30 Group III or iV oil would have less VI improvers..hence would last LONGER in theory not shorter...esp. when against a semi syn which wont last long at all.

the only plus side to a thinner oil is less tappet noise, but after 500ks your pretty much back to square one....

Not im my experience. 15k and still going strong. Good adjustment, good oils and good maintence plans.

Theoretically, the optimum time for changing oil should relate to a number of factors, and often the least important is how far your vehicle has traveled. Unfortunately, advised oil drain intervals are only averages, based on a typical type of driving. If driving conditions are more severe, a "classic" oil should be changed more frequently in order to maintain the maximum protection and cleanliness of the engine.

Thats why you do some UOAs on your oil...work out how your driving and your conditions are treating the oil and base everything around that.. not guess work. Fot $25 a pop its a great investment.

Also with regards to oils change intervals - OCIs. It has been proven accross a number of states and countries that 3-5k OCIs in nearly all daily driving conditions is just a waste of time. Infact, if your using a POE base oil its takes at least 5k to get the addatives going.

General outside temps have little effect on engine oil selection since all cars these days are water cooled. If you have a oil temp guage would will see the op. temp of your oil wont really change from 15 degrees to 45 degress...I tested this again recently on a 44 degree day.

However when you car hits the track...different story....but thats not relevant for poeple in this forum generally.

Its funny when people worry about all enviromental factors when doing oil changes but fail to investgate the specs of the oil in the first place ...thats the area you should foucs on...

In reality I agree that nearly all oils would work. But as we care...the oil is a vital cog in an engine maintence program...like with my last car the engine went for over 350,000kms....I'm sure it had somthing to do with treating it well..

Finally...

Shell Helix Ultra (SHU) is a group III product...rated pretty poorly in the group III range. For an extra $10 go the M1.

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:50 pm

khunjeng wrote:I do UOAs on my oil mate. That tell me exactly what condition the oil is in.

as you said its a synthetic oil so it should in theory be changed every 3000k's but if you run it to 10 thou you should be fine (but i wouldnt if you could change it)
Thats just totally wrong mate. Its not a race car. UOAs on most full syn oils agree that VII improves have not broken down up to 10k. There is a worldwide forum dedicated to this. The only time this may be true is when using a Group III product such as the castol or even some of the Shell products you listed...apart form not using them, I would not use them for long. Good oils Group IV, POA and POE base stocks...10k plus no problems...proven time and time again.

ummmmm yeah remember the fto isnt a performance car as such so going to a lower rated oil wont do much in the way of performance, but generally the lower rating the cleaner your engine will be. as i said, i use 10w40 and its perfect.... so why would i bother going to a 5/10w30, spend twice the price and have to change it in half the k's?
th...dunno who is feeding you this but is wrong. My previous oil analysis on my oil at 10k showed to could go to 15k...with a 5W30...

The only situation where you might chnage it every 3k is if you car sees some track work...then you would be using a 60 weight anyway.

In addition, as it seems you didn't read what i wrote...a 10W30 Group III or iV oil would have less VI improvers..hence would last LONGER in theory not shorter...esp. when against a semi syn which wont last long at all.

the only plus side to a thinner oil is less tappet noise, but after 500ks your pretty much back to square one....
Not im my experience. 15k and still going strong. Good adjustment, good oils and good maintence plans.

sh*t ive seen oil run in cars for 100 thou k's, im not saying it wont last, im saying its reccommended (and it is) to change fully synthetic oils every 3000ks, i personally wouldnt, and it wouldnt matter a sh*t really if it ran 10 thou.

i only use shell cause its a personal preferance, IMO within reason, all the bloody oils do the same thing

and i fully agree, good adjustment, good oils and good maintanence all add up, but on a pure, daily driver oil type, a 10w40 would be fine in any car including an fto which 'might' get flogged around the track once or twice.

swings and roundabouts mate.

Post by **Bennoz** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:59 pm

Oooooh an 'Oil-off!'

I love it... especially considering no-one here is a petrolium engineer or works for an oil company, nor has done anything else with oil other than putting it in street cars & reading crap on t'interweb!

LOL sorry, I'll get back in box now

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:40 pm

Bennoz wrote:Oooooh an 'Oil-off!'

I love it... especially considering no-one here is a petrolium engineer or works for an oil company, nor has done anything else with oil other than putting it in street cars & reading crap on t'interweb!

LOL sorry, I'll get back in box now

haha actually my good mate is a petrolium eng and does work for a big name il company in singapore...he's the one who put me onto a number of informative forums. My dad is also a chem eng. and I have made it a hobby to get to understand oil and oil basics from a lot of research. It intresting to me and has eliminated a lot of "rule of thumb" approchaes by mechanics who have just done the same thing for 20 years...

anyway everyone can do what they want...but if some1 asks for advice I give the best advise to the best of my knowledge.

khunjeng · Post by **khunjeng** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:17 pm

sh*t ive seen oil run in cars for 100 thou k's, im not saying it wont last, im saying its reccommended (and it is) to change fully synthetic oils every 3000ks, i personally wouldnt, and it wouldnt matter a sh*t really if it ran 10 thou.

did Shell suggest that?

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:26 pm

Bennoz wrote:Oooooh an 'Oil-off!'

I love it... especially considering no-one here is a petrolium engineer or works for an oil company, nor has done anything else with oil other than putting it in street cars & reading crap on t'interweb!

LOL sorry, I'll get back in box now

Hahaha.. well i work at a racetrack so i win!

SchumieFan · Post by **SchumieFan** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:31 pm

khunjeng wrote:
sh*t ive seen oil run in cars for 100 thou k's, im not saying it wont last, im saying its reccommended (and it is) to change fully synthetic oils every 3000ks, i personally wouldnt, and it wouldnt matter a sh*t really if it ran 10 thou.
did Shell suggest that?

acctually it was mobil

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:25 pm

SchumieFan wrote:
khunjeng wrote:
sh*t ive seen oil run in cars for 100 thou k's, im not saying it wont last, im saying its reccommended (and it is) to change fully synthetic oils every 3000ks, i personally wouldnt, and it wouldnt matter a sh*t really if it ran 10 thou.
did Shell suggest that?
acctually it was mobil

lol did u ever wonder why?