FTO AUSTRALIA

need some good 6x9's... dont know really what to look for... can anyone help... i have about $300 to spend... all audio in my car so far is pioneer, so id prefer to stay the same...but i want something that just blows you away...

What are you running so far?

I bought Sony Xplod' 350w 6x9's which are 85w RMS so they absolutley nail, I am not a fan of sony xplod' at all and most people say their sh*t etc but my ones go hard and i only paid $150 for them

hey mate if you got that cash to spend go for soundstreams taranchala series

mmm ... have a look through the site, you'll find a bunch of different opinions on 6x9's.

The general opinion is that you don't need to bother spending much on the rear speakers - mostly because people think that they're mostly for the passengers benefit, or for "fill"

If you have a sub, I agree with that idea. 6x9's are only in there to begin with to provide bass because the FTO doesn't come stock with a sub. If you're okay with only running 6x9's without a sub then I say go for it, spend your $300 on some decent ones, & if Pioneer is your brand of choice & you're happy with the rest of the Pioneer system then whatever you can get within your budget is fine.

If you want a decent sounding system, some decent 6" / 6.5's speakers in the rear parcel shelf should do the trick & get a decent 10" or 12" sub for bass & make sure its put in a decent properly sized enclosure built specifically for the sub. The rear speakers will still be mostly for 'fill' so you can actually get away with some cheap ones if you want - anything would be better than the stock ones.
You could even just go for rear 6x9's instead, but they're redundant if you have a sub.

If you're running the stock ones, just rip them out & replace with anything else in the mid range price bracket.

All depends how serious you are about your sound system & how good you want it to sound / what you want out of it.

yes i do have a sub... pioneer 12' 1000w running at 800w.... and i have been told that the stock 6x9's ( i think they are 6x9's) dont sound that great ... thats why im looking to change them...

im not really to fussy about the speakers up front on the doors and the dash... just wanna fix up the rear
is there any specific 6x9's that would go good with the sub i am running ? or it wont make much difference ? cos i dont wanna rock up to the store and wanna be lied to by the people working who just want to sell their products

ive got a pioneer 12" 1000w and a pioneer 10" 800w in mine and ive got Boschmann 700watts 6x9's. And i can vouch that 6x9's make a hell of a difference wether you have a sub(s) or not. Definately get them and good quality ones if you can!

soundstream is tha way 2 go man

Shahrez wrote:ive got a pioneer 12" 1000w and a pioneer 10" 800w in mine and ive got Boschmann 700watts 6x9's. And i can vouch that 6x9's make a hell of a difference wether you have a sub(s) or not. Definately get them and good quality ones if you can!

how exactly do they make a difference?

mr-charisma wrote:

Shahrez wrote:ive got a pioneer 12" 1000w and a pioneer 10" 800w in mine and ive got Boschmann 700watts 6x9's. And i can vouch that 6x9's make a hell of a difference wether you have a sub(s) or not. Definately get them and good quality ones if you can!

how exactly do they make a difference?

Absolutly they make a huge difference and are the back bone of any good car audio system.

6x9 (or7x10 which is what i have) usually are at least 3 way speakers meaning the provide 3 differnt sound waves (low mid and high) effectively being 3 speakers in 1.

As i said i have 7x10 Kenwoods and 6" front door speakers (with splits and tweeters) and an amp to power them, most ppl ask me do i have a sub and the answer is no.

The front door speakers are designed to provide a midrange sound (improved vocal clarity to front occupants) and the tweeters provide the higher pitched sounds (tist, tist, tist with techno music ).

The speakers are only going to be as good as your head unit though (which is usually like only 50watts) if you dont amp them, which i seriuosly recommend. not only for sound clarity but also to get the most lifr out of your speakers. Hope that makes sense and helps

Edit: Found a pic for you all

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yes exactly, without amping them they wont be of much significance I have got them amped up and it's hard to explain but to actually feel the difference they make, you will have to come have a sit in my car! The clarity, the treble coming from them is crisp, loud and clear. Mixed with the bass, its an all round 3d surround sound effect. Obviously you have to fiddle around with fade,treble, bass on the head unit to hit that magic spot. But once you get that,its just pure ecstacy! lol

Reason I asked what your running is to see if you have already upgraded front speakers, if you've got an amp to drive them and power output you have to use.
Remember that it's a system, it all works together.

In my opinion, sink your cash into a good set of front splits and a 4 channel amp, put the 6 x 9's on the back burner for now.

I'll explain why, It'll be an essay, but stick with me and learn...

The idea of a quality audio system is that if you close your eyes you should be able to picture where each "instrument" is positioned around you.
Keep this in mind while you read on...

You already have a good source of bass from your sub. Usually this would be the last thing you add, as I8AFRE has pointed out, a system can sound very good without a sub if it's set up properly.

You already have 6 x 9's in the back, which are only going to be your rear stage... You would probably be amazed how much better they sounded if you ran an amp for them.

Your front speakers should be where you invest more money. Do you go to a concert / club to enjoy the music with your back to it?
I hope not...
So why have all the sound coming from behind you in your car?

So now your saying "But subs are always in the boot, even on the best competition cars. That's coming from behind you..."
That's right.
Here's why you can get away with it. The higher the pitch of a sound, the more directional it will be.
Ever try to guess which direction thunder is coming from?
How about a whistle?
This is why splits are better for front speakers.
Instead of having all the high pitched sound firing into your legs, it's pointed at your head where you can hear it . This makes them sound much clearer.
If you want to test what sort of difference this makes, go to a car audio store.
While listening to a set of splits move around them.
You'll look like a freak, but you'll get what I mean .
The big drivers down lower in the door will still pump out your mids and higher bass frequencies nicely.

A good set of 6" or 6.5" splits driven by a good amp will give you a great sound experience. Your sub will take care of the deep stuff the splits can't handle. The rear speakers really just help to surround you more with sound, but they will benefit from the amp too to help balance it out.

How much you spend depends on how good you want it to sound and how loud you want to go. Better quality = better brands, how loud = more watts (Better brands will be more efficient here too though...)
The good news is that you already have a way to find a good system... your own ears .
We're all different, and what sounds good to me might sound like crap for the next person. Listen to as many combinations as you can and decide on what YOU like the sound of before you hand over your hard earned...

Lastly a quick lesson in power ratings for amps and speakers while your shopping-
There are generally 2 figures used by manufacturers for power, RMS and PMPO.
Most people in the know don't even look at a PMPO rating, it's advertising wank in most ways.
RMS is a much more accurate way to guage the power handling of amps and speakers.
Any salesman who trys to sell you something based on PMPO values should not be trusted...

The 50W or so quoted on most decks is a PMPO value. In reality, this is closer to 10 to 13 Watts RMS in most cases. Hardly exciting stuff.
Any speakers running off this won't blow you away no matter how much you pay for them. They can sound good, but they need to be amplified to realise their full potential, as Shahrez is pointing out.

If you've made it this far you've probably got a different perspective on car audio systems. So go out window shopping and see what's around and what sounds good. Take a CD of YOUR favourite music and get em to crank it up for you. Just watch out for the guys that are only trying to pry the money from your wallet. If nothing else, you'll get to listen to some good tunes on some great systems... But if your smart, you'll find what your looking for and can budget accordingly

Enjoy.

thanks a lot. sounds very interesting and will try to follow these steps you have put out to me. I have one last question and that is would a pair of 6x9's or 6' splits be any good running off the factory standard amp ? or should i invest in something of a 300-500w amp ?

harry90 wrote:thanks a lot. sounds very interesting and will try to follow these steps you have put out to me. I have one last question and that is would a pair of 6x9's or 6' splits be any good running off the factory standard amp ? or should i invest in something of a 300-500w amp ?

Chuck the factory amp in the bin & rip out the stock speakers for starters. Might be useful to keep them around though, unless they're completely screwed they can make okay budget computer speakers.

I would recommend running new cabling, it's another one of the limiting factors as to how good your system can sound - can be a bitch to run it through the doors, but it will be worth it.

If you're not keen to do a shiteload of reading & do the install yourself or don't know anyone that knows what they're doing who can help you, then just get a pro to do it - they charge through the ears for it, but its worth getting it done properly.

If you're interested in getting a good install together, head over to www.mobileelectronics.com.au/ sign up to the forums .. they've got loads of good info - just try not to get sucked into the "Audiophile" craze .. these guys are extremist audio geeks it's easy to get carried away & start planning multi-thousand dollar systems that are way out from your original budget.

Listen to TCGPX - his entire comment is absolutely on the money.

In my opinion, sink your cash into a good set of front splits and a 4 channel amp, put the 6 x 9's on the back burner for now.

Absolutely spot on. The only other thing I would add is put a better Head Unit on your shopping list as well. (don't need the top of the line model unless you're getting some pretty awesome speakers..)

Choose your amp after you've chosen your speakers. Once you're happy with the speakers you've chosen, have a listen to them in the store, but just remember that what they sound like on the wall isn't what they're going to sound like in your car & it could sound completely different again depending on the other gear you get to go with it & how its installed.

Amp that is matched to the power output of your speakers - a good rule of thumb is - you get what you pay for. stay away from the cheapest stuff & try to avoid the most expensive stuff (not that its crap, its just expensive) if you go for something in the mid range price bracket & d oa bit of research before you buy it you should be right.

I won't go into naming brands, which is good / bad / etc.. everyones going to have different opinions on it & I don't think you should be making your decision based on brands - you really just need to go & listen to as many different systems as you can & make your mind up on how it sounds to you, not because someone said they're a good brand. Also, don't just take a salesmans word on things, most will tell you anything to make a sale. Always ask what Amps / head unit the speakers are running off & whether it has been tuned or not / what sub it has got hooked up, if any etc
Have a budget in mind & try to stick to it, but keep in mind that you won't get change from $1000 - if that's too much to be outlaying for now, just get your front speakers changed out, then get an amp & build the rest of the system gradually.

I8AFRE wrote:

mr-charisma wrote:

Shahrez wrote:ive got a pioneer 12" 1000w and a pioneer 10" 800w in mine and ive got Boschmann 700watts 6x9's. And i can vouch that 6x9's make a hell of a difference wether you have a sub(s) or not. Definately get them and good quality ones if you can!

how exactly do they make a difference?

Absolutly they make a huge difference and are the back bone of any good car audio system.

6x9 (or7x10 which is what i have) usually are at least 3 way speakers meaning the provide 3 differnt sound waves (low mid and high) effectively being 3 speakers in 1.

As i said i have 7x10 Kenwoods and 6" front door speakers (with splits and tweeters) and an amp to power them, most ppl ask me do i have a sub and the answer is no.

6x9's are as you said, an "all-purpose" speaker, but IMO they're going to make a good system sound worse than it really should.

For one, they're an elliptical speaker, they're made that way because they need to be big (for the bass) & squashed so that they fit properly in the rear parcel shelf, you're never going to get as good / clear / undistorted sound as you would out of a set of decent 'round' speakers..
You're not going to get as good mid tones from the rear with 6x9's as you would with 6's or 6.5's - as I've said before, I like the surround sound, rather than it all being up front..
Also, having 6x9's as your only source of bass = good. Having them in your system with a sub = not so good.
hear me out on this.. Your subs are specifically designed for bass, your splits are designed for mid / high frequencies. the 6x9's are designed to be the best of both worlds, but they don't do it anywhere near as well as speakers that are designed for each specific purpose.
Also, being that the bass that your 6x9's are putting out is going to be out of sync with the bass that your sub is putting out, means that its going to sound sloppy - unless the timing between the subs & the rear speakers is set up perfectly, you're going to get doof doof's overlapping on each other.. if you can't hear it, or notice the difference then thats great, but IMO you'll get better results from having some 6" or 6.5" speakers in the rear - pumping out more mid tones & leave the job of pumping out bass up to your sub - As TCGPX mentioned, you can't tell which direction bass is coming from - but I will add, that you can tell "when" the bass is hitting & I much prefer the nice, clean, crisp bass hit you get without 6x9's in the back providing 'fill'

As for having 6x9's that people mistake for a sub, I'd rather have a sub.

Also when shopping, don't get sucked in by the PMPO thing, I have a feeling that when you say 300 to 500W amp, your talking PMPO again.

Most manufacturers label their gear in PMPO ratings cos it sounds great saying 1000 watts instead of 300...
What would you buy if you didn't know any better, the 1000W PMPO Subwoofer or the 500W RMS Subwoofer?
A 500W RMS Sub will generally be more powerful than a 1000W PMPO Sub!
Be smarter than the "fully sik 10 000 watt subwoofa bro!" crowd and learn a few of the basics, you can build a system that sounds twice as good for half the money some of these clowns waste...

I know the RMS / PMPO thing is confusing, that's why I've tried to steer you towards looking for RMS values.
Yes, they are harder to find...
Yes, you may have to read some small print...
But there are reasons that people in the know ignore PMPO or "Max Power" Values...

To give you an Idea, I just bought some 7 x 10" Kenwood speakers for my rear shelf.
These speakers are rated at 500W PMPO or 90W RMS...

So, lets say I go buy an Alpine amp rated at 500W PMPO x 2 to power my new Kenwood 500W PMPO speakers...
This Alpine amp can pump out 250W RMS x 2!
And it would also cost me nearly twice as much as the Alpine amp that would actually suit my speakers...
Not to mention, a mistake while tuning the system up could blow those new speakers into oblivion...
Knowing the difference will not only help you set up a better system, It can save you a fortune!

More good points by TCGPX.

found on the Jaycar site, I think this sums it up nicely

WRMS is Watts Root Mean Square, or average power output. It is the most meaningful power measurement for comparisons to other equivalent equipment.

The other measurement is usually PMPO or Pretty Meanless Power Output (just kidding.. It is Peak Music Power Output). Basically, it is the absolute maximum power output for the system. However, it usually won't hold maximum for very long. Marketing crews love PMPO as they some all the speaker outputs and apply the shotest pulse to the system possible before the speakers blow and say, "Beauty - that'll be 500W PMPO" whereas the RMS power may only be 25W per speaker! Then, they write 500W power output on the package and people buy based on this figure.

When buying a single speaker, it is generally not as stark a difference between PMPO and RMS, but it is always significantly higher. In my opinion, ignore PMPO and always look for the RMS power handling figure for comparisons.

If all you're given is the Peak / Maximum power rating you can find out the RMS value by dividing it by 0.707
similarly you can multiply by 1.414 to get the PMPO from a given wRMS value.

Also, to complicate things a little bit more, you'll also need to take into consideration whether or not the speakers or sub you're getting run on 2Ohm stable, 4Ohm Stable, etc.. it will say this on the box somewhere.
The power rating at 2 Ohm might be higher than it is at 4 Ohm, so just for arguments sake, if you're getting an amp that is 1000w RMS @ 2 ohm, it might only be 500w RMS @ 4 Ohm, so you would want to get some subs that are capable of running @ 2 Ohm stable, or bridged so that you can take full advantage of the Amps capabilities.

Also, to complicate things even more again .. When buying an Amp, you'll need to look at the THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) rating. Although not so important seeing as usually most quality components have a fairly low THD rating to begin with these days, and most people insist that THD levels below 1% THD aren't even noticeable..
You'll still need to take it into consideration when buying your equipment - just try to avoid anything with THD over 1% & you should be fine .. I haven't seen many amps that are worse than that.

Hehe, this thread is almost turning into a car audio encyclopedia .. could almost have all the juicy bits copied out & compiled into a sticky post at this rate.. haven't even started to get into high pass filters, low pass filters, crossovers, equalisers etc...


If anyone's interested, this is one of the main sites I used when I was researching all this stuff ... it has loads of good info. Must read for beginners.
http://www.carstereo.com/help/

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thanks for the responses from everyone... this weekend i am going to go shopping around for some 6' splits and take out the factory amp and replace it with something more worthy. i will keep everyone posted about what happens and what i buy and how it sounds..
thanks for all the advice

harry90 wrote:thanks for the responses from everyone... this weekend i am going to go shopping around for some 6' splits and take out the factory amp and replace it with something more worthy. i will keep everyone posted about what happens and what i buy and how it sounds..
thanks for all the advice

for 6" splits - get yourself down to your local JB hi-fi & have a listen to some Kickers, I think it's the 'RS' model speakers - sound pretty sweet .. can sound a little bit too shrill on the high frequency notes, but once dialled back a little bit they're great..

If you can give us an idea of what your budget is / what you want to get out of your system etc .. we could give some recommendations on what might suit your needs

If you replace your factory amp, you might want to get yourself an AMP wiring kit & run cabling for it .. I wouldn't run it off the stock cabling personally..

As stated before; 6x9s sacrifice Sound Quality for Bass....

Unnecesary in a system incorporating a sub...

You should blow most your coin in your fronts...

My setup:

Same sub as you with a 800W Pioneer amp...
Soundstream Tarrantula 6x9s (now replaced with sony 85Wrms 6x9s for $89)
Boston Acoustic Pro Series Front Splits on a 800W Kenwood Amp (Over $1600 worth here)
And pioneer 7" Touch Screen Dvd...

As you can see its all in the fronts... And my system goes hard...

When tuned properly your front speakers should be much louder than your rears...

Being round, they also produce a better sound...

Cheap rear speakers off the Head unit...
Awesome fronts off a good amp...
Whatever sub you like...

Personally.. i'd stay with 6x9s for the rear as they are only for Fill... Call up anyone who does pro audio installs... the rears are necesary, but only for basic fill...

Ask anyone how serious i am about my car... i dont skimp on anything...

Yet I run a set of $89 Rear speakers along side $1600 worth of fronts (including $490 for front amp)...

I have been into car audio for years and have won many sound comps...

Just watch an installer tune a system... He'll fade all the sound to the front... then slowly fade some into the rears untill he can "just" hear them with the fronts going...

I have had every type of setup in my fto... from a 151dB bass monster to my current SQ Setup... all are better off with $100 rears as apposed to expensive ones...