6a13TT vs 6A12T vs Supercharging vs V8 vs Everything else

sublime19 · Post by **sublime19** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:29 am

Wow, the level of stupidity in here never ceases to amaze. The lack of ability to comprehend a simple comment shocks me to the point where I wonder how you feed yourselves.

I'm not even gonna bother anymore.

sublime19 · Post by **sublime19** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:04 pm

This seriously got out of hand, I didn't know it was going to get this heated, lets just forget it and move on

I'm sorry, but I got agitated, hope you saw my point, that's all.

mr-charisma · Post by **mr-charisma** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:30 am

Awesome stuff Simon.. Will be good to see some useful information moved out somewhere else ..

Anyway, I wasn't going to end up posting this as a lot of it was just another blow up @ Sublime, but I've edited out all but the important stuff .. so here goes my attempt to address some of the issues brought up throughout the thread..

I never said that the 6a13 conversion has less risk of problems arising, if anything there is more risk .. (just not from the engine blowing up)
It isn't in dispute that the 6a13 engine is "made for a turbo & that the engine is going to hold up to high boost better than the 6a12"

Is it easier to do an engine conversion

Short answer: No, it's not necessarily going to be easier
But, honestly, does anyone really care if it's easier?
Most people aren't going to be doing it themselves anyway, and those that are going to do the majority of it themselves aren't really going to care, it's all part of the fun..

The real question should be "How much will it cost to get a workshop to do the whole thing?" & "How much will it cost to get a workshop to do all the hard stuff?"

Is there less chance of having problems?"

Put it this way, you're running three times as much power through the rest of the components that weren't designed for it.. the engine is pretty tough & the bottom end has some strengthening as stock & without forged internals it's good for at least 16 PSI (possibly 18- Low 20's)

At least with a turbo 6a12 running 5-7 PSI of boost, the load you're putting on the other parts is not nearly as significant.. and the engine should hold up to it, provided that you have a good tune..

If you've read Sam's thread/s they are a good example of what could go wrong, but really it doesn't mean sh*t .. he was / is going for insanely high HP on a highly modified, unproven engine .. even before that, he was pushing the limits of the 6a12 engine & some unfortunate events led to it giving out... but I don't think it's typical of most turbo conversions out there.. Look at all the other threads on turbo conversions .. there are dozens of successful turbo projects on these forums / FTOOC that didn't encounter nearly as many issues as Sams, or Jeff's & Danny's .. not to mention FTOEvolution is just now starting to notice his diff dying..

Even Ben & Mitch have come across quite a few problems doing their conversions, granted, it's not 'hard' to hand over money to a professional to get custom fabrication, or other difficult work done.. but it is something that if you were doing it yourself, would make it a lot harder than doing a straight turbo install ..

Add to that, that you have to play around with wiring looms, custom fabrication of manifold , turbo up/down piping (as with any turbo conversion), fuel system upgrades (pump, reg., lines, injectors (optional)) , ignition system upgrades, strengthened clutch install, flywheel machine & fitting, tuning etc etc the list goes on.. I don't see how it is "EASIER"

With regards to Simon's (I8A-4RE) install, I have to say the complete opposite .. "just because Simon pulled off his conversion" it does mean that everyone else will (or can) .. if Simon can do it, anyone can

Seriously though.. he has had some mechanical experience in the past, but if you're willing to take some night school welding classes & basic mechanical course then you should be fine with it.. his total came in at or around $6k & he still had to get some of it fabricated professionally..

OIL STARVATION:
I think someone mentioned this once & now it's the newest buzz word .. there's probably something about it on Sam's thread.. IMO, if you're checking the oil regularly & making sure it's not leaking / running low, then I don't see how this could be a problem.. The amount of oil the turbo can suck up isn't infinite.. and I doubt enough to suffocate the engine. I've yet to find any info about it that is definitive .. everyone's a bit vague on the issue, which leads me to think that it is rare & only cause issues after the engine has been running low enough oil levels for long enough sustained driving to severely overheat the engine components..

Simple answer - If you're doing a turbo conversion & are worried about it, put in a bigger sump, better pump, sump for the turbo, oil coolers or whatever you have to to avoid it. Same as you would do for anything else .. Murphy's Law 101.

I will go into more details about issues people (& myself) have actually experienced with the 6a13 conversions later.. I'm tired.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:29 am

**CLAP** **CLAP**

Well done MR C, well thought out and presented

xj265 · Post by **xj265** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:06 pm

I came across this on photobucket:

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg17 ... s/?start=0

It would appear to be a supercharged FTO, i dont anything bout supercharging but thought some of guys might be interested in seeing some pics

FTEvolution · Post by **FTEvolution** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:13 am

That job looks f'in mint, I messaged him (well commented actually) on photobucket and invited him here.

Hopefully he comes over, I am sure everyone will be into his stories

d_dan · Post by **d_dan** » Fri May 01, 2009 8:18 am

hes nearly finished it now hes got it up to 3psi hes got his calculations wrong for the crank pully

mr-charisma · Post by **mr-charisma** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:52 pm

xj265 wrote:I came across this on photobucket:

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg17 ... s/?start=0

It would appear to be a supercharged FTO, i dont anything bout supercharging but thought some of guys might be interested in seeing some pics

That photobucket album is full of awesomeness ..

Anyone noticed there is a 6a13 engine near the end of the gallery?

I skipped to the end & had to do a double take when I went back to the beginning, thought the end result was a supercharged 6a13 FTO .. which would be LEGEN .. wait for it ..... wait for it ... DARY!!

Would be interesting if he ported this project over to the 6a13 later

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:50 am

mr-charisma wrote:Turbo conversion + forged Internals:
- $10-25k
+/- 100 FWkw decrease

lol
wtf?? im getting arounf 317hp on 8psi.... and just injectors should see the boost over to 20psi+

mr-charisma · Post by **mr-charisma** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:30 am

FtoSam wrote:
mr-charisma wrote:Turbo conversion + forged Internals:
- $10-25k
+/- 100 FWkw decrease
lol
wtf?? im getting arounf 317hp on 8psi.... and just injectors should see the boost over to 20psi+

hahaha

I was waiting to see how long it took you to notice that

I thought it would be months / years .. now we have a nice round, even figure to put down for it

oh wait.. 317??

you sure you can't just make 3 more hp out of it & bring it to an even 320?

Soo... it is;

Turbo conversion + forged Internals:
- $10-25k (Is that right Sam?)
+/- 100-130 FWkw increase
(When you're not behind it pushing

)

*edit* - oh .. wait you're still mod :S i take it all back

d_dan · Post by **d_dan** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:35 am

im looking at 9k AUD for a 6a12T with forged internals

FtoSam · Post by **FtoSam** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:16 am

What exactly are we taking into account?

If its just this engine with ancillaries (fuel pump, lines, etc) I'd say about 20k.... but thats just mine... custom cams are not neccesary.... neither is bored, honed and blueprinted block... or ported and polished heads... etc etc...