Handling ability between a FTO and DC2R

fto617 · Post by **fto617** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:39 pm

man wats with atn108 man, tiptronic is not crappy. Did u get a car to drive on the street everyday for convenience and comfort or street dragging everyday? Grow up man, if u want to drag dont even bother using typeR or fto and manual is not even that much faster than tip its just tips cant launch good .

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:14 pm

To be fair i think atn108 got a point, & its very true, so i don't know why people so gee up about it.

FTO is a good looking cruizer with a bit of gut & nothing more. Well unless you got a "hair dryer" under the bonnet.

atn108 · Post by **atn108** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:53 pm

mrx wrote: Driven on the street or parked, as it is for 99.9% of it's life, which gets more attention from it's looks and sound? Which has the better equipment level and interior (apart from maybe the DC5 - would be lineball)? Did the ITR have climate control, 6 stack CD etc etc?

Yes FTO is an exotic car and does stand out especially with a nice bodykit. But again this still comes down to personal preference.

Climate control? Stacker? These are all optional features that I'm pretty sure most initial ITR buyers would have got installed. You have to remember the GPVr - the "Type R" FTO - also had climate control as an additional option.

fto617 wrote: man wats with atn108 man, tiptronic is not crappy. Did u get a car to drive on the street everyday for convenience and comfort or street dragging everyday? Grow up man, if u want to drag dont even bother using typeR or fto and manual is not even that much faster than tip its just tips cant launch good

This topic is about performance/handling right? Don't take it personally fto617. Some ppl appreciate driving manual, others prefer tiptronic or auto. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Tips can't launch good? That's the whole reason why I mentioned it - theres a clear difference.

G1 · Post by G1 » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:46 pm

atn108 wrote:I agree. Generally I'd say 90% of the ppl out there are only into their own cars and know sh*t all about other makes/models let alone what they know about their own car or cars in general.

FTO is definitely underrated due to all the crappy Tiptronics and non-GPXs out there but overall DC2 is faster and handles better.

Also those ppl who have out dragged a stock DC2 with your stock FTO..only one answer... that DC2 guy couldn't drive

stock DC2 Type R vs a stock FTO GS?

I thought i made a clear point that the only valid comparison is TypeR vs GPvR, the 2 flagship models for performance. As for all the luxury side of things on the rest of the model range (we know both TypeR and GPvR have been stripped of some luxury to make way for performance but at least GPvR comes with A/C and CD standard), we know FTO comes with more features as standard and much nicer seats for starters...

counting out the flagship models, that would leave GPX vs VTiR... we know who will win that one.

D-TRAIN · Post by **D-TRAIN** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:51 am

atn108 wrote:I agree. Generally I'd say 90% of the ppl out there are only into their own cars and know sh*t all about other makes/models let alone what they know about their own car or cars in general.

That's a pretty big generalisation to make especially when you're talking about sport cars enthusiasts. If they're your average joe, I wouldn't be giving them my time of day to what they have to say....

mxysxy · Post by **mxysxy** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:24 am

I gotto agree with that

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:27 pm

fto617 wrote:man wats with atn108 man, tiptronic is not crappy. Did u get a car to drive on the street everyday for convenience and comfort or street dragging everyday? Grow up man, if u want to drag dont even bother using typeR or fto and manual is not even that much faster than tip its just tips cant launch good .

tip on the FTO is crappy full stop. The difference between the two is big down the quarter.

Also with such a small capacity 2000CC having a manual is a great thing to have. You can start from a stop with way higher rpm. Extra gear means that gear ratios are shortened for better acceleration. Tip FTOs such are off idle as there is crap all torque down low and the engine characteristics are peaky.

So having manual is so much better because of the engine.

Fair enough with bigger V8s with much more torque on idle is sometimes doesnt make a different which you chose as they both are as fast as each other.

mrx · Post by **mrx** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:47 am

I am not having a go at anyone here, but what is the obsession with quarter mile times? It really doesn't mean a lot. And who here bought their FTO for quick standing 1/4's?

A quick car around a track means far more about the cars full ability - compare an NSX and say the new LS2 engined Coupe for example. NSX is not ocerly fast from a standing start, while the Coupe has just dipped under 5 seconds 0-100, and estimate 1/4's in the 12's. But which of those two is going to get around a lap first? And the next lap - and the one after that?

Ignoring price - which is the better car? Which is the quicker car?

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:55 am

Fair point, but how many people take their car to track? Usually the comparisons are base on "traffic lights hero".

I don't think you should ignore the price factor, because anyone can easily said Porsche Carrera S are quicker on 0-100, 1/4miles & on the track then the NSX, if you don't take price into consideration.

The comparison was base on STOCK Teggy R & FTO, even with the Version R, on the track with the same driver, I think the Teggy will be just in front for lap time.

spetz · Post by **spetz** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:24 am

The ITR would beat the FTO through corners, straight line... everything...

And ITR is a beautiful car too...

G1 · Post by G1 » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:00 pm

So comparing Type R against FTO of any kind is a valid comparison is it? Why is it not GPvR vs an Integra (could be GSI, VTIR)? Why is it that with Integra it's specifically the TypeR and with FTO there is no specific model considering that FTO has a wider model range. What a ridiculous comparison.

Who thinks that LSD, front and rear strut towers, stiffer suspension and lightened kerb weight on the GPvR is not gonna make a difference in performance?

My friend had a manual GPvR STOCK, and no other FTOs could keep up with it especially around corners. Imagine the savings you make when you choose this over a TypeR, and the mods that you could do with the savings to make it perform better than a TypeR beyond doubt. GPvR wins hands down unless you are specifically after a local offering instead of a grey import and want an uglier (but not ugly) car

atn108 · Post by **atn108** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:51 pm

G1 wrote:So comparing Type R against FTO of any kind is a valid comparison is it?

I'm pretty sure every one here is comparing a stock DC2 ITR with a stock manual FTO GPX.

I agree with FTO338. Even with the GPvR FTO, the DC2 ITR is still a slightly faster better handling car.

Yes a GPX is cheaper (GPvR slightly cheaper) than a DC2 ITR. But whats that got to do with stock performance and handling between the two?

DC2 ITR is not uglier than FTO. Both cars are nice - just a matter of personal preference in which one you prefer.

payaya · Post by **payaya** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:47 pm

mrx wrote:I am not having a go at anyone here, but what is the obsession with quarter mile times? It really doesn't mean a lot. And who here bought their FTO for quick standing 1/4's?

A quick car around a track means far more about the cars full ability - compare an NSX and say the new LS2 engined Coupe for example. NSX is not ocerly fast from a standing start, while the Coupe has just dipped under 5 seconds 0-100, and estimate 1/4's in the 12's. But which of those two is going to get around a lap first? And the next lap - and the one after that?

Ignoring price - which is the better car? Which is the quicker car?

Have you seen the lap times achieved by the HSVs? In numorous mags the LS1 managed to be always near the top of the field during lap times. From what i can recall they didnt chose a circut with a lot of straits, so you cant say that the NSX will beat a LS2 with more CC's as they havent been directly compared. The nsx probably will gain on cornering speed but you cant hide the fact the LS2 is 6.0L of V8 power. Im not holden fan myself but with the LS1/LS2 no one can deny they are fast in a strait line and around a race track. Good engines but as everyone knows their chassis, suspension and trannys especially autos suck. But i guess their sucky suspension setup does wonders with the LS2 around a race track. I give credit when its due.

BFYB 2003 results
Lotus Elise 111S - 1:10.44
Subaru WRX STi - 1:11.53
HSV GTS Coupe - 1:11.81
Porsche Boxter S - 1:11.81
Nissan 350Z - 1:11.97
BMW M3 SMG - 1:12.00
BMW Z4 - 1:12.09
Mazda RX8 - 1:12.68
Impreza WRX - 1:12.84
Commodore SV8 - 1:13.22
FPV GT - 1:13.60
Falcon XR8 - 1:13.93
Audi S3 - 1:14.00
Clio Sport - 1:14.27
Falcon XR6T - 1:14.38
Astra SRi Turbo - 1:14.44
Falcon XT 5.4 - 1:15.68
Focus ST170 - 1:15.78
Corolla Sportivo - 1:16.75
Barina SRi - 1:18.28
Echo Sportivo - 1:20.84

The Holden right up there, why? Big engine but still goes around corners alright.

well seeing as the trend on this forum is more strait line/engine power improvment i'm guessing its quarter mile times???

or is that still for the race track?

G1 · Post by G1 » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:56 pm

atn108 wrote: I'm pretty sure every one here is comparing a stock DC2 ITR with a stock manual FTO GPX.

Yes a GPX is cheaper (GPvR slightly cheaper) than a DC2 ITR. But whats that got to do with stock performance and handling between the two?

.

actually from some of the statements made by some ppl here and on ozhonda, (im not saying you) i can see that people are generalising FTOs and generally ppl dont know about the GPvR... and I can see the topic name is mentioning DC2R

and are you trying to say that even though a better FTO (GPvR with all the additional performance parts) exists, we should ignore it and compare it to GPX?

this topic can be seen from 2 POV

let's take the point of view of measuring just on merit without taking $$$ into account then it should be TypeR vs GPvR that's a fair comparison. TypeR might win it might not, only professional drivers can probably bring out the difference... before factual proof it's all speculation.

let's now take the point of view from a consumer perspective $$$ is important isn't it? more bang for your money... like BFYB... unless money means nothing to you of course. so that's why smart people would buy the FTO and do it up with the money saved

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:06 am

G1 wrote: so that's why smart people would buy the FTO and do it up with the money saved

Hmmm there isn't much performance part availible for the FTO compare to Teggy, & also if you spend the same amount of money on both car, you get a lot less gain out of FTO. So at the end of the day how much you really save is another question.

Anyway I'm sure most member brought a FTO because its look factor & with a bit of power that won't lose to someone mum's Corolla at the traffic lights is a bonus.

So I won't pretend my FTO is a Hot performance car, yes it suprise some people at the lights, but its just a suprise, not a win.

G1 · Post by G1 » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:22 am

just did a search for typeRs in the online used car sites.... cheapest i find is 25k and most expensive is around 32k now..

compared to FTO GPX (you wanted to compare GPX right?) lets see 11k to 23k

wow imagine what you could do if you find a decent FTO for about 15k, which in most cases has performance mods on it... then spend 10k modding it up even more (even a really nice 20k FTO + 5k mods)

then you buy the cheapest typeR for 25k, and you are already behind by heaps for the same money... and hope that they have added CD player as it wasnt standard... and some ads dont mention CD at all but most should have had the AC OPTION added. start modding it and you realise you are falling behind in the $$$ race evem more...

ok so there is a discrepency in the year built etc... but from a consumer perspective its still more bang for you bucks, and these days its actually not too bad owning an FTO compared to 4-5 years ago for gettting parts etc... and we have these forums too... not to mention the climate control, at least CD standard, and more comfortable seats etc..

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:41 pm

So if want you said is correct, then that mean the ITR hold their resale value much better then the FTO, as FTO had depreciate a lot for the last couple of years. So i don't how much bang for your you get, & don't forget the insurance, it cost the same to insure a FTO as a brand new WRX for a 25yr+

Anyway i don't see the point keep going, as anyone know this is a FTO forum, saying any negative things about it would just get rejected, is like posting WRX will beat a Commodore in the Holden forum, & you will get people saying it should be compare with the HSV & not the most common V8 on the road

G1 · Post by G1 » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:12 pm

yeah good point, im just enjoying the "discussion" and it's good that not everyone agrees, coz then i have to find new arguments to form my opinion. so far no one has really been able to argue against my specifix points, they divert the argument to a different point

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:41 pm

I totally agree with you G1, these type of discussion brings out people from hiding ehheehee. As long as no one take it personally & respect that we all just expressing our opinion with no right & wrong answer.

G1 · Post by G1 » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:18 pm

true true, im sick of arguing now... they are both very desirable cars.... i seriously looked at a type r before i got my first fto, but as soon as i sat in one... and im nowhere near fat... i just decided i cant drive everyday like this... i wish i was rich enough for 2 cars but as a daily driver the FTO has served me well twice

and my friends now get in my bora and say it just doesnt feel the same around the corners but im lovin the torquey engine... im not in a state to write anymore so i'll end my rant and my 2c (actually i think i put a dollar into this one) at that...

hey at least im passionate about something