Crap cut from Valandis build

chuster · Post by **chuster** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:07 pm

Valandis91 wrote:ive got the 4spd tip...
bit confusing lots of varying opinions going on here

No need to be confused, just look at the gain as long as its in the same gear or dont worry about numbers at all. After all its how it drives not the number that matters

Post by **Bennoz** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:58 pm

Dont get me wrong, but this sort of work takes time to get right. I dont reckon you'll have the car on the road & running right for a month.

Valandis91 · Post by **Valandis91** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:16 pm

meh i dont care anymore...
i cant drive it anyways.
as long as they get it right and dont stuff it up im good.
good timing to lose my licence then!
i was suspecting to do it in 5 days is a bit of a ask...

J · Post by J » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:36 am

sux about the license loss and damage. how long it gone for?

Post by **I8A4RE** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:33 am

I bet my left testicle they did it in the wrong gear.

Your max torque should be way over 100 not at 76. Mine was at 150

It should be done in third or fourth gear but third is optimum.

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:09 am

aza013 wrote:
Delvance wrote:3rd and 4th gives the same readout guys..
well there is about 3-4kws between 3rd and 4th.

In the grand scheme of the readout, 3-4kw is quite neglible imho. But yes, my car also read 3-4kw difference between 3rd and 4th (the fto) but for my car, i reckon 4th would've given the same output, only it hit 180 speed cut before rev cut (and yeah it made power all the way until cutout).

Post by **aza013** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:07 am

With the camber on the back I am running -1.5 and I have to say it sticks like any thing It's great.

Criss · Post by **Criss** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:24 pm

running -3 camber atm....

Post by **vipfto** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:45 pm

yip i run -2/-2.5 on front
and -3 on rear awesmone handling but i dont really worry about tire wear

should run -1 though on rear as when you go round a corner the tire taking the load will actually go to positive camber keeping at zero is just stupid, will make tire wear quicker and will reduce handling

howc · Post by **howc** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:28 pm

you will skid if you have negative camber on the front and 0 camber on the rear.

as mentioned above during cornering cambers will increase to the positive side therefore 0 cambers will become +1 camber (estimate).

imo, better to have more negative camber on the rear then on the front as this gives better control during hard cornering as well as confidence.

koolio1234 · Post by **koolio1234** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:48 am

payaya wrote:
koolio1234 wrote:Im running 0 camber at the rear because of:
1. the rear is not driven and doesnt need the grip (FWD)
2. any camber not serving a specific purpose will wear away your tires
3. Less under-steer due to reduced traction
If I was to take it to the track i'd camber the rear to 0.5-1.0

hopefully they'll get their sh*t together mate. Hate to say it but i doubt they will finish by friday.
1. the rear is not driven and doesnt need the grip (FWD)
Yes it does.

2. any camber not serving a specific purpose will wear away your tires
Camber keeps your rear end stable and maximises rear end grip. Going around a corner with no negative camber will cause your rear tyres to lean on their sidewall causing tyre wear and less grip.

3. Less under-steer due to reduced traction
Elaborate.

These recommendations are for an fto that will be used as an everyday car.

1. Rear wheels in an fto aren't going to be breaking traction unless your cornering real hard (which you would never need to on PUBLIC roads). Also, you have forgotten that about 75% of the fto's weight will be at the front so the rear will have very little momentum during the transfer of weight.

2. Again, camber will maximize your rear end grip when you corner at HIGH SPEEDS where there is significant weight transfer. This is not something you would come across in everyday commuting.

3. Simply put, if you increase grip at the front you improve the turn-in steering response, this is done by increasing negative camber on the front wheels. If you have very little camber in the rear, there will be less grip in the rear and will have a tendency to want to over-steer (thereby reducing under-steer).

I stick by my earlier statement, serious negative camber is unnecessary in suburban driving conditions. You do not need to hit every corner @ 80km/h so you do not need to camber the rear more than -0.5 and the fronts -1.5

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:40 pm

I've had rear traction break on my fto when i was running neg camber as well (f+r tein coilovers). Also there will not be 75% of weight at the front of the car...iirc, the front/rear weight dist in the fto was something like high 60s front and 40s rear. Now if you're powering through a corner as well, more weight will transfer to the back of the car. Also you don't need to corner hard to make wheels change their attitude. Even doing a medium corner will change most of the suspension's geometry. Plus if you do decide to go hard and am running the 0 camber.. it's not gonna feel very nice, especially if you lift throttle quickly etc.

As for going neg camber front and no camber rear to prevent understeer, you may well achieve that but really what has happened is you've raised the front's grip threshold while reducing the rear.. while yes that will prevent understeer in certain conditions, however it means your car has more untapped grip potential at the rear that you won't be able to access until you change the camber.

You are better to adjust for over/under steer characteristics with swaybar settings, front/rear tire pressures and front/rear stiffness settings.

I agree serious camber is not necessary for street driving.

Valandis91 · Post by **Valandis91** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:20 pm

ok nice camber talk guys but i have a much more serious issue on hand if anyone could help me with...

also look in the parts for sales area. have some goodies for sale

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:19 pm

Not trying to be an arse or anything.. but you said the cams are too big and are hitting the rocker arms. I honestly don't think anyone here can really help you with it. Especially as your car is in a workshop in Tas too.

As for getting your labour costs back from the supplier of the cams.. i highly doubt it. Looks to me you are going into fairly uncharted territory with your car and generally the people who play the car hobby this seriously...are loaded enough to not care and understand that when pushing boundaries, R&D will be involved meaning lots of money..You are the pioneer laying out the plans that people may follow..

Generally, builds cost a lot and customers and their workshop will end up having a special relationship with different charge rates for labour and parts trialing etc.

Maybe try looking into fair trading and call them etc for advice/whatnot.

GL.

Criss · Post by **Criss** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:07 am

did u ever ever think that you are being rip off from the shop..????
it's doesnt sounds right....

JOeJOe · Post by **JOeJOe** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:38 am

Lesson learn .. don't set a budget thinking that that is enough. Modifying cars is a very expensive hobby so don't go modifying your car if you have limit funding.

xSlurpee · Post by **xSlurpee** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:08 pm

lol should've sold your fto and bought a VTEC YO!!!!! mate

dude im sorry for you, all the best about your car.

Post by **I8A4RE** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:44 pm

get an itemised bill and start going through it

koolio1234 · Post by **koolio1234** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:41 pm

I8A4RE wrote:get an itemised bill and start going through it

+1, if you do this, at least you can see where your budget was blown and if they over-charged you for something.

Valandis91 · Post by **Valandis91** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:51 pm

my budget was blown over by labour...
and lash adjusters cost quite abit