Turbo Kit

fto617 · Post by **fto617** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:36 pm

hmmm if scracys fto is so reliable
we should use it as a benchmark and make turbo kits !

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:52 pm

Nah mine was turbo'd ex japan,but the set up is very simple standard ecu extra injector+controller,good for around 150kw at the wheels.Low boost and simplicity are the key to reliability.Remember what dannyboy&jeff are doing is much much harder to do and as such will have teething problems which will take time to be sorted,fact of life with any such conversion.To turbo an fto profesionally using new parts dont expect any change from $10000 and thats assuming there arent any failures allong the way.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:18 am

to4garret wrote:Danny, I do not take kindly too been called an idiot thank you, I a not trying to offend anyone, nor mislead, I am speaking from personal experience here.

I have done a very similar job with my car, V6 VR4 (see www link), I did it myself, with a lot of research and asking people questions. Yes it was turbo'd in the first place, which did make it easier for me. But the way in which I positioned the turbo and built the manifold is applicable to the FTO. The way I did it, is not the most *optimal* way for the turbo to sit, because the rear bank of cyl's has a longer distance to travel creating non-uniform exhaust pulses, but it does make the car sound similar to a six cyl Subaru . The ideal would have been to go over the gearbox as you have done, but doing it that way would have added considerably more expense, moving fuel lines, repositioning the throttle body, shielding electronics etc.

Granted the FTO is a different car/engine, but the principal remains. Low boost high compression, greedy e-manage and the standard ECU, the factory injectors should support 150kw at the wheels standard. Of course there maybe unforeseen problems, but I could not see that been from a mechanical side, the only unknown factor for me in the turbo conversion would be the ECU side of things, which I, or who ever would have to *research* more into.

Forgetting my car is not an FTO, but of the same engine family, here is a shopping list. These are prices I paid and are estimations because I do not have the actual prices in front of me at the moment.

$600 TDO5H BIG 16G
$300 EVO intercooler (I have a hybrid, but an EVO cooler would be better)
$800 Manifold and exhaust modifications
$800 for intake modification, piping, Samco, intake for the turbo etc.
$800 for piggy back computer. (e-manage supports ignition with optional expansion)

The greatest saving came from attempting this myself, labor is the killer of the budget. But for some one with a bit of mechanical knowledge it would be great too try. The feeling of success when it works is indescribable.

Of course, if you do it yourself there's no guarantee it will work, I had many sleepness nights wondering if this was going to work... and it did, very well I might add. There is no harm in trying something different, I just added another way/idea to the pot for people to take inspiration from.

Now I built this in NZ. I am sure the prices would not vary that much in regards to the fabrication of exhaust and intake. Instead of going to a specialized performance car shop, I went to a general engineer for the manifold, and a normal exhaust shop for the intercooler piping, it is amazing the difference in price you pay.

I am saying it can be done for that price, as you said, there's no guarantee it would work, the way I did it is not be for everyone, some people may prefer a drive in drive out kit, this is just another option/avenue, a little ingenuity goes a long way to saving a lot of money. Think outside the square.

Maybe idiot was too strong a word i am just a bit tired of seeing people put up a cost to do something with out properly explaining it, which you did not do. SO maybe i should have called you something else any suggestions?. not very many car owners have the mechanical background to attempt doing a turbo conversion. The biggest cost is the labour, the reason performance shops charge so much is the time in fabricating parts, putting it on checking and double checking then adjusting for problems encountered. Having been involved in doing conversions and seen quite a lot of differant upgrades and conversions done over the years. I seen one guy recently did a turbo upgrade on his car and didnt do it properly and crushed his wiring harness causing a short and kept over boosting, he blamed all the people he bought the parts off, eventually they found where he had made the problem. Seen one guy today had installed his turbo oil return line so as it entered the block it had to go uphill, I could go on and on about backyarders doing work on there cars. You can try and make it sound simple but it very rarely is, there is the cost of wiring in the emange or piggy back or aftermarket ECU, fitting for the turbo oil feed and oil return and water fittings, heat shields, how about a mivec controller, or a BOV, decompression gasket, battery relocation, boost controller, variable rate fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, bigger injectors, fuel lines and fittings for the fpr, then the time spent on a dyno to get it tuned properly, I know some people out there like to think they can tune there cars, but it is amazing how many times i have seen and heard of blown head gaskets and detonate pistons by playing with the tuning of there car. By the way even some of the so called experts I will not use, only one person tunes my car now, after 2 of my engines detonated with in a week of a so called expert tuning it. I could put a turbo on a FTO and it would cost me less than 5 grand and it would work but it would not work as efficently as i would be happy with it, because to make it work properly it costs more than 5 grand, everthing is connected and to get it right you have to make sure each part suits the others, not a collection of cheap parts off ebay. Actually after writing down the parts you missed from your list makes me wonder what sort turbo job you done if you only needed five parts to put a turbo on your car.

My car up untill recently ( damaged the gearbox so took it off )had been off the road for a total of about 6weeks. Had clutch problems or computer problems but was still drivable and extreeemly quick. But hey there is a big differance between 300 Kw and 150 Kw

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:32 am

Aside from the cost of the turbo, many fail to factor in the cost of an engineers certificate, any mods required to meet the engineers certificate as well as the increased insurance costs.

akumi · Post by **akumi** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:50 pm

yeah i think fto617 is right, we should use scracy's FTO as a benchmark and i think since it is done in jap, coz there's more professional tuners there. 150kw is it ATW? If it is, i think it's fine by me. How much did u pay for your car Scracy?

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:31 pm

akumi wrote:yeah i think fto617 is right, we should use scracy's FTO as a benchmark and i think since it is done in jap, coz there's more professional tuners there. 150kw is it ATW? If it is, i think it's fine by me. How much did u pay for your car Scracy?

Yes Scarcy's turbo car was done in Japan originally, but he rebuilded it here, & add few extra parts. It similar setup from memory, but much more reliable then the originally Jap tune.

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:07 am

we should get a mould of his exhaust pipes to the turbo and out, if he is not having trouble with heat, then it sounds like a pretty good setup.

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:24 pm

By just fabricate the exhaust pipes won't help, cause he also runs a transmission cooler, an oil cooler & an intercooler. So you can see ts kinda complicated, but it is quite simple compare to some i've seen.

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:41 am

Danny, as i mentioned i didnt have the price list when i wrote that post, there was a lot of things i missed out.

as you probably know, its the small things that cost the money

i needed to get slim line radiator fans because the original ones would not fit any more, there's over $500 of samco hose joiners. battery relocation was cheap as i had a account at the local electrical shop, mmm double insulated welding wire

extension of the 02 sensor, misc fabrication costs for intercooler brackets, turbo dump pipe, cold air box etc.

i tried to inflated the prices a bit, but they still probably dont reflect correctly.

Quickslvr · Post by **Quickslvr** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:25 pm

Thank you all for the precious info

mrStumpy · Post by **mrStumpy** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:45 pm

Hey scracy ,

Would you be able to provide photos of your engine bay etc, + a detailed description of whats been done to your car. And other info you can think of. To help out your fellow FTO'ers

Admin: Maybe we can add a section to the forum that only deals with turbocharging of the FTO? Where all successfull descriptions are put.

Cheers guys

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:39 pm

I think there are already some of my engine bay pics already posted in the picture gallery? If not then maybe ruchi or someone from the twg may be able to help me post some up as i dont know how

This will happen soon as i am planning to sell the car

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:03 pm

email them to me (hit the email button bellow this post) and ill upload them for you

ruchi · Post by **ruchi** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:04 am

I've only got exterior shots, not engine bay.

Brendan has a copy of the Hot4's article which has some pics and info, but beware dialup users its a big file (486k).

http://www.dzyrme.com/bc7.jpg

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:25 pm

i've got 2 high resolution of scracy's FTO engine bay!! Gav can i send them to u?

They are total of 4MB, & it should give anyone some idea on the turbo set.

But I don't have any pics on the piping for the 3 different cooler though

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:43 pm

yep email to me ill host it

FTO338 · Post by **FTO338** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:50 pm

Thax Gav Pics send

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:42 pm

here they are, i linked to them so it doesnt make the page really big
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsl26kb/Scracy ... bo%201.JPG
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsl26kb/Scracy ... bo%202.JPG

mrStumpy · Post by **mrStumpy** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:57 pm

Thanks for that guys!!
Scarcy: would you be able to write up whats been done to your engine?
Cheers bro,

much appreciated!

scracy · Post by **scracy** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:03 pm

Not much really! basically a stock engine with standard ecu. A extra injector which squirts into the right angle bend (see photo) which is controlled via a hks extra injector controller which works in conjunction with a hks boost controller. There is only one change to the ecu which is a hks fuel cut defencer. On the intake side a garret t28bb turbo with an integral waste gate provides 7 psi of boost right upto 8300rpm redline max power around 7600rpm, max boost around 3000rpm right upto redline.Cant run more boost since the engine hasent been decompressed,but since it runs standard compression the engine is very responsive.There is as kev mentioned an engine oil cooler and a transmission oil cooler as well as a relatively small intercooler, a smaller intercooler is better for low boost applications such as this because there is less volume to pressurise which results in virtually no lag and hence better throttle response.Might sound a bit complicatted but really its not.