FTO AUSTRALIA

FTEvolution wrote:Seriously, don't take Koolio the wrong way. If you have ever done an engine transplant and/or helped someone turbocharge a standard N / A mill, then you would know that the transplant is by far simpler.

Engine transplants (especially with these cars as the mountings between 6A12/6A13 or 4G93/4G63 are almost identical) are far simpler than turbocharging a standard engine as all you essentially do is plug and play (gross generalisation). Then just route the standard loom from the donor etc.

Turbo route requires fabrication of a manifold, mounting, oil lines, fuel issues, ANOTHER ECU AND WIRING. Oh, lets not forget tuning.

Bang for buck, the transplant is the better option. If you wanna be different, do whatever you want. But Koolio's opinon is valid IMO

Don't know why some of you are blasting me, FTevolution understood what I was saying.

The ones I gave a thumbs up to are the ones that are good bang-for-buck in terms of performance and ease.

My reasoning:

The 6a13 because it mounts up fairly well and is relatively easy to put in.

The 4g63t, while not as easy to mate to a fto it offers immense performance potential as well as heaps of aftermarket support making it a worthwhile future investment.

As for the ones I gave a thumbs down, I never said they were impossible to do or that they wont yield great results. I was trying to convey that they dont offer as much as a return of your investment in terms of performance gained for all the effort/money that was poured into them.

Its been generally accepted here that 6a13 and recently the 4g63t are great potential and efficient approaches to get max performance with the least fabrication/time/money/etc

Never discounted NA tuning an fto, just left it out as I don't want to compare NA projects to forced induction. Though I'm sure N/A fto's are great in their own right.

I'm sure if you had unlimited funds, you could successfully put a v8 in an fto with custom fabrication. Or you could turbo a 6a12 (mivec). But, for the average project seeker with 10 - 15 grand to burn, I'm sure a 6a13/4g63t would be a more rewarding approach (300+ kw/atw)

PS. When I said 6a12 i was referring to the mivec 6a12. Also, in regards to my research, I never performed any of these transplants myself or ever claimed to be an expert in this field, but through reading about many peoples experiences and witnessing their different projects, I was able to come to a informed conclusion which I summarised into thumbs up and thumbs down.
(summarising is foolish, I know. )

sublime19 wrote:I think koolio meant to say the headaches involved in trying to turbo the stock fto engine is

Yes, exactly.

Seriously, stop trying to retroactively justify your un-researched post. You constructed your post with the intention of instructing a fledgling member on how he should power up his FTO. There was no room for grey areas in your 'thumbs up' and 'thumbs down' rating system.

As for your comments about ease of conversions in regards to turbo 6A12 projects... If you're making generalisations, so will I. Let's compare nvr2low's 6A13TT conversion to Simon's turbo project;
Simon started later, finished sooner (with, I'm going to go ahead and say a lower total cost) and his efforts yielded a 63% performance increase. Clearly the 6A12T deserves a thumbs down. Definitely not a practical option.

You state that your judgment on turboed MIVEC FTOs was based on research. Hmm, isn't Dwayne's new turbo FTO a MIVEC? Isn't d_dan's FTO turbo a MIVEC 6A12, hey, he actually has a thread about it in the turbo section. Wait, I seem to recall reading a fair bit about MIVEC turbos being a viable option when a tuner that actually knows his ass from his elbow is added into the equation. Ah, but you already know this after all the research you undertook to implement your ratings system.

Yeah, sumarising is foolish, it ends up making you look like a knob.

[/sarcasm]

Let's try not to turn this into a total flamefest ..

Any major mods are going to have their drawbacks, whether it's budgets getting blown out the window, not being able to make more than 5-7 PSI boost, snapping drive shafts / blowing g'boxes L,R&C, or requiring professional workshops to do custom fabrication work..

Really though, it doesn't matter .. all the info is out there on this site for people to make up their minds if they bother to do some research .. if they don't & just rely on a couple of answers to their questions on one thread then they'll find themselves in a world of trouble ..

For anyone even thinking about doing the 6a13 conversion .. I would at the very least, be waiting until Ben's (and Mitchell's) project is finished so that you have a better idea of the final costs involved, as it will give a good indication of how much it will be if you do some of the work yourself, and if you just get the workshop to do it..

You just need to look at Jeff's budget to see how out of hand it can get ..

If you want to be different & do something that noone else has even thought of, then you just have to take the risk that you could be wasting your money on something that is going to be more problems than it's worth.. IMO better off sticking to something that's been tried & tested than trying to be "unique" .. at (IMO)

I will never again put a turbo on a motor that wasn't designed for a turbo ... but thats just me.

koolio1234 wrote:PS. When I said 6a12 i was referring to the mivec 6a12. Also, in regards to my research, I never performed any of these transplants myself or ever claimed to be an expert in this field, but through reading about many peoples experiences and witnessing their different projects, I was able to come to a informed conclusion which I summarised into thumbs up and thumbs down.
(summarising is foolish, I know. )

This is exactly what I assumed you were talking about. AFAIAC Pete is trying to blow this right out of proportion. Perhaps your first post was not very well constructed (LOL @ j00 haha). Leavfe it to this forum to elaborate fully on ANYTHING you don't elaborate on yourself. IMO Pete needs to back the f.ck off 'cos he is being far from constructive!

i was a fridge once, but then my wheels fell off.



happy happy happy. joy joy joy.







Sugar.

dB wrote:i was a fridge once, but then my wheels fell off.



happy happy happy. joy joy joy.







Sugar.

Smartest thing said in this thread.

Bennoz wrote:I will never again put a turbo on a motor that wasn't designed for a turbo ... but thats just me.

bahaha love it Ben.. as always .. simple, & to the point.. NO BSing around..

GAME OVER BITCHES..

I was going to start a new thread but since this one is so far off topic anyway here goes.

I think everyone under estimates the potential of the 6A12. Simons car is the best example of that. A 63% increase in power on a n/a designed engine is almost unheard of. Especially when you look at the small amount of boost it's running. Another thing to note aswell is that he has had not encountered any major problems either(touch wood).

Anyway as Simon mentioned earlier I happen to have a picture of a supercharged Gr FTO. I came across it during my extensive research on supercarging the FTO. I have put a hold on the project now as my partner is 16 weeks pregnet. Anyway through my research it is the most cost effecient bang for your buck path IMO. I calculated around the $5k mark to have it installed and tuned on 5 psi. Anyway heres the picture.

<a href="http://s459.photobucket.com/albums/qq31 ... rgedGR.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq31 ... rgedGR.jpg" border="0" alt="Supercharged Gr FTO"></a>

Well this thread has got quite heated lol.

@ Jamie, thats the bitch, looks very tidy and very do able.

@ Mr C, you also need to pull yopur head out of ben's ass.

@MR prez, mate if we all had that attitude, you wouldnt be doing a 6a13 conversion after what dannyboy and jeff went through, now would you???? lol

Just cause you have one f**k up doesnt mean all are destined to fail. In fact, if the human race had that mentality we will still all be living in caves.

@ Koolio, mate one of the reasons i went for the 6a12t was too change peoples minds from all the bullshit that was out there. sh*t when i was doing research everyone was saying you couldnt even keep your a/c. So yeah, i get a little defensive when i have gone to all this trouble to destroy the myths and then people still believe the old way of thinking. So im sorry if i came off sounding harsh

@ pete, mate i couldnt agree more, may have a little arrgessiveness behind it but hey reminds me of me lol

^

Simon, no need to get so defensive you noob, the simple point is:

Is it easier to just do a conversion than Turbo a stock fto engine?

Yes.

That fact will remain whether you like it / agree with it or not, that's all everybody is saying.

sublime19 wrote:^

Simon, no need to get so defensive you noob, the simple point is:

Is it easier to just do a conversion than Turbo a stock fto engine?

Yes.

That fact will remain whether you like it / agree with it or not, that's all everybody is saying.

Sorry, just thought I would add my $0.02 ...

It is easier to turbo then engine transplant ... Reason being, is that you really only need to do minor things to the engine, your piping, intercooler and exhaust...

To do the transplant, you are up for more hours, more head fucks with making things fit, which is a whole lot more wrench time... Then you have ECU, etc. etc. ...

So, to me looks like to turbo the stock engine actually is easier, provided you don't go nuts on wanting to over boost...

@ Simon - F*ck off .. lol j/k ..

As I said in my other posts (if you bothered to read them) Your conversion is great & good bang for buck ..

the only catch is ..

You're at (or reaching) the limits of power that the 6a12 engine can make without going nova.. the only ways (that I can think of off the top of my head) to get quicker after that if you get bored of it are;

- to do what Sam did & strengthen the internals (if anyone wants to leave the caves & try to pull it off, go for it.. but it's probably not preferable, given his experiences .. )
- to do a conversion to another engine
- Start ripping things to pieces & make your car lighter..
- Try to up the boost & risk ripping your engine a new a**hole..

As Jamie said .. a 63% power increase on an NA engine is awesome & if you're only interested in running 5-7PSI of boost then it's a damn decent way to go
...

@ Jamie - I've seen that picture before a few times .. after a quick search there's not much info out there about the car .. at least that I can find..;

Belong's to Tony Banton in the UK;

Quarter mile times;
http://www.mitsubishi-fto.net/qmile/index.htm

I'm sure the guy spent a while trying to figure out the best way to do the piping .. but I keep looking at it & thinking that there has to be a better way to do it .. going all the way around the rear of the engine bay to the TB seems too awkward..

I've just been down to check out my engine bay & there would have to be some room to run the piping around the inside of the front bar.. which would be a much more direct route..

I assume the belts / pulley's are all stashed underneath the 'SiVEC' cover?

sublime19 wrote:^

Simon, no need to get so defensive you noob, the simple point is:

Is it easier to just do a conversion than Turbo a stock fto engine?

Yes.

That fact will remain whether you like it / agree with it or not, that's all everybody is saying.

That is the stupidest thing that has been said so far...

Humour me .. how is it easier to do a transplant + turbo than to just do a turbo conversion?

mr-charisma wrote:

sublime19 wrote:^

Simon, no need to get so defensive you noob, the simple point is:

Is it easier to just do a conversion than Turbo a stock fto engine?

Yes.

That fact will remain whether you like it / agree with it or not, that's all everybody is saying.

That is the stupidest thing that has been said so far...

Humour me .. how is it easier to do a transplant + turbo than to just do a turbo conversion?

My understanding from what you guys have said here on the forum is that turboing a 6a12 mivec is quite hard to do without experiencing serious problems (ie oil starvation in parts of the engine, incompatibility of mivec cams or something along those lines). If this isnt the case then I'd be interested to know why more fto owners dont turbo the 6a12 mivec.

6a13 transplant isnt much easier but it will at least yield greater performance and has stronger internals AFAIK.


No big deal, everyone has their opinions and if Im wrong about certain things then that's fine, at least I've learn't something new.

Bennoz wrote:I will never again put a turbo on a motor that wasn't designed for a turbo ... but thats just me.

My old man has that exact same attitude and he's a mechanical engineer.

sublime19 wrote:Simon, no need to get so defensive you noob, the simple point is:

Hahaha subbie, you never cease to amaze me or make me laugh.

No need to get all defensive??? you make it sound as though im all upset and ripping through people for having an opinion.......clearly im not lol just offering the correct information about the topic

Then here comes the funny part:

Is it easier to just do a conversion than Turbo a stock fto engine?

Yes.
That fact will remain whether you like it / agree with it or not, that's all everybody is saying

How many conversions vs turbo installs have you done??? How do you know?? cause you have read a few peoples threads, bahahaha dont make me laugh.

Seriously, you have no idea what your talking about.

Everybody is saying?????? Tell me who everybody is lol. I think you need to open your eyes, clear your mind and read the thread again before you embarrass yourself any more.

Ps dont worry ill clean this thread up

I8A4RE wrote:
Ps dont worry ill clean this thread up

Good stuff .. put it in gibberish, along with the 50,000 other threads like it..

mr-charisma wrote:

I8A4RE wrote:
Ps dont worry ill clean this thread up

Good stuff .. put it in gibberish, along with the 50,000 other threads like it..

Done

I8A4RE wrote:

mr-charisma wrote:

I8A4RE wrote:
Ps dont worry ill clean this thread up

Good stuff .. put it in gibberish, along with the 50,000 other threads like it..

Done

Cool stuff ... now does anyone know about 'Electric Superchargers' .. I really want to fit one to my 6a13 lol :lol: