How much KW your fto has?

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FTEvolution
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Post by FTEvolution »

My old tip GPX made 111 kw atw with just a very good filter and some 98 octane (cold day in Christchurch helped too no doubt)

But remember ladies, "seeming slow" isn't anything to do with how much power you have got (here we go again) it is all about how much torque you have, how flat the torque curve is and where it hits. Torque is tractive effort, how hastily an engine moves something (wheels in our case)

This is why a GPX with 150 kw (about 100 atw) is destroyed by an old rex that is sitting around 95 kw atw (old rex's lost around 40% through parasitic drivetrain loss). It is the mountain of torque that makes the difference. It is obviously also the reason that turbocharged cars (road cars anyways) always punch well above their weight class litre for litre.

More here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

And here -> http://www.car-videos.net/articles/hors ... torque.asp a very good explanation in motoring terms :)

I find it interesting and funny when talking to the "boy racer" fraternity round here and they ask about power etc, I tell them, they have more, we race, they complain cos they have more power but I still won, then I ask them how much torque they are producing and they just lgo Image :lol:

The industry and media hype it right up, and the general public think that their GT Commonwhore 295 with almost 300 kw is the bees knees, then complain when destroyed by Jappers with half the power (but mountains more torque)

In simplistic terms, hp (or kw) = sustained speed (like hitting a hill at 100 kph and being able to keep that speed), torque = acceleration. Drag racing = quickest acceleration, traffic light racing = quickest acceleration.

It is only in motorsport that I can honestly see power mean more than torque (normal driving of course, not talking about towing here)

It's a complicated subject, and this is my understanding of it. Feel free to correct me if something I have said is fundamentally flawed :)
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Post by sublime19 »

^

Good old trying to explain difference between torque and power to people. I was having a conversation with a friend at work about it and wanted to hit him cos he just wouldn't understand and told me it didn't make sense and I was making it up.

I assume it'd be more fun to supercharge a car which already has a lot of torque as opposed to one which doesn't have much at the low end to begin with.

So turbo's on FTOs are a better idea than superchargers?
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Post by I8A4RE »

^^^^ NOpe,

5psi is 5psi no matter whether it comes from a turbo or a super. the difference is a super charge has 5psi (or whatever you have dailed into it) right form the moment you put your foot down. Where as a turbo has to spool up first, so wont hit 5psi until 2500rpm (or whatever your turbo spools at).

But the debate of turbo vs super is a massive one and if you do a google on just that you find good arguements for both. I think the reason most people go trubo over super on fto is the price, space, and the finer details of actually mounting the supercharger in perfect harmony with the other belts
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Post by koolio1234 »

Yeah, Turbo's are more suitable as it is a cheaper forced induction alternative. Superchargers are great in higher displacement engines such as the 4L 6's and V8, etc. There will always be a market for turbo's where small displacement high revving engines are concerned.

Its quite amazing how many people believe kw/hp is the only measure of performance where it is only half of the equation.
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Post by SchumieFan »

i dont feel so bad about my 4 pot having 107kw anymore :d
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Post by nicholas »

Also don't forget, there is a significant difference in figures between dynos. So your 108 could be someone else's 112 (or whatever).

My car was put at 109.1 kw atw at the place in Silverwater; about 9am and probably 22 - 24*C outside.

That's with exhaust, headers, after market air filter but not CAI.
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Post by mr-charisma »

Turbo conversion:
- $6k-10k
+/- 50-60 FWkw increase

Turbo conversion + forged Internals:
- $10-25k
+/- 100 FWkw decrease laughing

Supercharger conversion
- $5k-7k
+/- 40-50 FWkw increase

6a13 Turbo conversion
- $10k-30k+
+/- 170 - 200 FWkw increase

NOS setup:
-$2-3k -
+/- 40 FWkw increase

6a13 Turbo + NOS:
- $10-30k + $2-3k
+/- 180- 250 FWkw increase + faster turbo spool (Chance of blowing something up cause it hasn't been done yet)

If anyone has a difference of opinion on the above then lets try & sort it out..
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Post by mr-charisma »

I8A4RE wrote: Didnt Mr C just run 170 odd kw on 7psi??????? and thats a manual.
217kwATW (Just over 290BHP) on 7 PSI
277kwATW (Just over 370BHP) on 16 PSI

Didn't do a run with the 14PSI mapping though

Hopefully with new spark plugs, better ignition system it should boost it back around the 306kw (410BHP) mark and then some..

Video's here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2IBeNs04BM

IMO - 300HP is plenty for an FTO while staying FWD .. it spins the wheels enough, even at 60 / 100 kph .. I haven't felt the need to go boost it up higher than 7PSI so far..
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Post by d_dan »

iv got one at 199.1 KW
and another one at between
215KW and 240 KW
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Post by FtoSam »

because im slack and havent done any more work on getting my new injectors.... im still on 8psi...

that saw 317hp (220kw?) atw.
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Post by aza013 »

I8A4RE wrote:I have 134 killer wasps.......at the moment muwhahahaha
hehehehe just to up date you all I now have the haltech in and tuned and I have to say sorry Simon but a NA car has just beeten a turbo :twisted: 135.4kws :twisted: :P
So I have got a 18.4kw gain from it.
I will be getting a 2nd dyno run done on another dyno to get a 100% read out.
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I still have some things to add to the car to get more out of it, ie.UAS air pipe, headers and 2.5" pipes just to start it off.
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Valandis91
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Post by Valandis91 »

wow very nice aza!

what exactly have u done to your car apart from the haltech???
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Post by vipfto »

yeah aza i wanna know what have you done?
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Post by koolio1234 »

nice work aza, keep us updated on your NA Monster.
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Post by Tippin »

thats awesome aza, good job mate :D

love your car ;)
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Post by I8A4RE »

Nice work AZA :thumright:

But remember mine started on 81kw, so just think where yours would be sitting with a turbo :twisted:
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Post by Bennoz »

Thats awesome! Well there ya go, almost 20kws with a Haltech.
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Post by FTEvolution »

Mint result mate, that is a f**king good effort!
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Post by aza013 »

thanks every one :D

koolio yep I will keep updating when I get more done to it.
Valandis91 wrote:wow very nice aza!

what exactly have you done to your car apart from the haltech???
what have I done? well I have done:-
port polish and port match, CAI and ram pipe, high flow cat and muffler, bumped up the compretion by shaving the heads (now revs out to 8300rpm), plugs and leads, mivec controller (mivec still kicks in at 5900rpm)
now with the Haltech the timing has been advanced by 4degrees and a lot of other little bits, I still have to get the full run down oon it.
I8A4RE wrote:But remember mine started on 81kw, so just think where yours would be sitting with a turbo
this is true you did have a big jump even with only 5psi boost as for me getting a turbo I still think I would stay away from it :roll:
I am thinking the 6A13 bottom end with the 6A12 top end will be on the card after I hit the 150kws and get sick of it :lol: and then NOS :twisted: oh and take more weight out of the car.
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Post by cb »

I8A4RE wrote:^^^^ NOpe,

5psi is 5psi no matter whether it comes from a turbo or a super. the difference is a super charge has 5psi (or whatever you have dailed into it) right form the moment you put your foot down. Where as a turbo has to spool up first, so wont hit 5psi until 2500rpm (or whatever your turbo spools at).

But the debate of turbo vs super is a massive one and if you do a google on just that you find good arguements for both. I think the reason most people go trubo over super on fto is the price, space, and the finer details of actually mounting the supercharger in perfect harmony with the other belts
I'd go turbo as superchargers are belt driven and take power to make power if you know what I mean, turbo lag i guess is the opposite side of the coin but keep to a small set up high mount on low boost and your right, not that you'd have much room to work with lol
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