FTO AUSTRALIA

Just about the only time I use 4th gear is going through 40 zones

On the way up, 3rd redlines above the legal highway limit, and on the way down I've been told that using your brakes is better than engine breaking, and meh who needs engine breaking in 4th gear anyways.

so maybe it'll make a tiny difference in 200,000 kms time, but i really think cars are there to be enjoyed a little bit too.

I never understood why people use engine braking. I mean if you're fanging down a mountain then understandable to keep your brakes cool from brake fade.

But in everyday driving if you're engine braking technically you're using your clutch more which comes back to clutch wear again. Put simply...pair of brake pads $~100....new clutch $$$$$

Nacho wrote:I never understood why people use engine braking. I mean if you're fanging down a mountain then understandable to keep your brakes cool from brake fade.

But in everyday driving if you're engine braking technically you're using your clutch more which comes back to clutch wear again. Put simply...pair of brake pads $~100....new clutch $$$$$

Using the gearbox to slow down is not to keep your brakes cool. Its to be used at the same time as the brake for a more controlled brake but more importantly to give you more braking power allowing you to brake later.

I8A4RE wrote:

Nacho wrote:I never understood why people use engine braking. I mean if you're fanging down a mountain then understandable to keep your brakes cool from brake fade.

But in everyday driving if you're engine braking technically you're using your clutch more which comes back to clutch wear again. Put simply...pair of brake pads $~100....new clutch $$$$$

Using the gearbox to slow down is not to keep your brakes cool. Its to be used at the same time as the brake for a more controlled brake but more importantly to give you more braking power allowing you to brake later.

Or to get the engine to the right rpm to take off again.

yay! try going from fourth to second

Bennoz wrote:

I8A4RE wrote:

Nacho wrote:I never understood why people use engine braking. I mean if you're fanging down a mountain then understandable to keep your brakes cool from brake fade.

But in everyday driving if you're engine braking technically you're using your clutch more which comes back to clutch wear again. Put simply...pair of brake pads $~100....new clutch $$$$$

Using the gearbox to slow down is not to keep your brakes cool. Its to be used at the same time as the brake for a more controlled brake but more importantly to give you more braking power allowing you to brake later.

Or to get the engine to the right rpm to take off again.

agreed,

I8A4RE wrote:

Nacho wrote:I never understood why people use engine braking. I mean if you're fanging down a mountain then understandable to keep your brakes cool from brake fade.

But in everyday driving if you're engine braking technically you're using your clutch more which comes back to clutch wear again. Put simply...pair of brake pads $~100....new clutch $$$$$

Using the gearbox to slow down is not to keep your brakes cool. Its to be used at the same time as the brake for a more controlled brake but more importantly to give you more braking power allowing you to brake later.

I know engine breaking is just annoying and I must prefer to use my breaks and overheat the crap out of them then stress the engine and driveline.

im not sure if im understanding you right, as your post only contained one full stoip and no other punctuation.

So if i am understanding you correctly, your saying you dont use engine breaking cause you dont want to stress your engine?? If this is the case, all i ask is.......

Do you ever drive your car hard eg round hills etc etc?? Or do drive like a granny all the time?

Nacho wrote:Getting mixed responses when asking this question. Good or bad....and why?

A penny for your thoughts?

Engine braking in general is not good. You have brakes for stopping, and gears for going. Cheaper to by new pads then rebuild a gearbox or a clutch.

The quickest way to stop is actually without engine braking, as when you engine brake the brakes not only stop your car but have to slow your engine down too.

However, "down shifting" is used into corners (via heal-toe'ing) to match engine revs and not have more unnecessary movement to upset the balance of the car. As an example; if your on a high speed mild corner trying to downshift into 2nd without rev-matching you are probably going to overseer. (weight distribution going to the front)

The other reason is to be in the right gear at the correct RPM when exiting a corner, which is the main reason for downshifting. (which causes engine braking)

If you see a light ahead go red, use your brakes. If you are entering a corner cruising, use your brakes. If you are on the track or are going for it downshifting is ok for keeping your RPM up for the corner exit.

Hope this explains thing a little bit more, this is just what has been explained to me over the years. What you do is personal preference, and I apologize for the rant and the loss of your brain cells.

Boris wrote:
Hope this clarifies things, and I apologize for the rant.

Sorry Boris, you're a senior member so not trying to step on toes but you make it sound like yours is the only viable answer.

At the end of the day, it's personal choice what you like to do.

Personally, if I kill my clutch in 20 - 30,000 kms time because I used engine braking to slow down, then I'll gladly stump up the cash to replace it - safe in the knowledge that I had a bloody good time ruining it and the money spent was well worth it

But, that doesn't in any way mean I drive irresponsibly or don't take the very best of my car; it just means I drive it to enjoy it and believe it likes a bit of spirited driving too

Boris wrote:Engine braking in general is not good. You have brakes for stopping, and gears for going. Cheaper to by new pads then rebuild a gearbox or a clutch.

The quickest way to stop is actually without engine braking, as when you engine brake the brakes not only stop your car but have to slow your engine down too.

What a load of BS, mate your F&*ken kidding yourself if you actually beleive the dribble that just came from your keyboard.
Seriously i think i have just lost 5 % of my brain cells reading that garbage.

billy madison

nicholas wrote:Sorry Boris, you're a senior member so not trying to step on toes but you make it sound like yours is the only viable answer.

No Worries, sorry didn't mean to sound like that! I completely agree with you, that's it's a personal preference, I was just explaining the theory that I have been explained over the years. I personally use gears to slow down most of the time too, even around town..
(I will amend)

I8A4RE wrote:What a load of BS, mate your F&*ken kidding yourself if you actually beleive the dribble that just came from your keyboard. Seriously i think i have just lost 5 % of my brain cells reading that garbage.

This is why I don't visit these forums much, because it's full of kids like you. I can't believe you got qld co-ordinator by being so rude all the time (not just in this thread). If you took basic physics you would understand the concept. Nice neons btw.

Nice neons btw.

Was that a little dig Whos been a child now.

F'ken hell, what is it with you guys this week! Everybody's on the rag

Considering the time Boris has spent on the track, his experiences & opinions are as valid as the next blokes.

Did you not already bollock Sublime for this yesterday?
Its time for the pot to stop meeting up with the kettle me thinks.

And by the way, this:

Boris wrote:The quickest way to stop is actually without engine braking, as when you engine brake the brakes not only stop your car but have to slow your engine down too.

Is absolutely correct. When you're in gear & pulling up, your brakes are clamping on the discs, the discs are connected to your driveshafts, which are still connected to the drivetrain, the drivetrain is connected to the engine. So do the math.

Personally I've always been a fan of engine braking (never heard of anything bad from it). But I'm of mixed opinions as to whether it is better/faster at braking or not.

Anyway, back ontot he OP topic, I've the understanding that skipping gears on the up change is not so good for your syncros. Reason being the following situation:

You are in 2nd and revs are up at 7000rpm at X kph
You shift at a moderate speed to 4th, but at X kph, your revs in 4th need to be 2700 (for arguments sake).
Thus, depending on your shift speed, your engine might still be at 5000rpm or higher, making your syncros work that little bit harder than they should had you not skipped 3rd.

Open to debate though. But the above reason is why I avoid the skipping of gears on upshifts - it's the same reason why you heel and toe/rev match. Even downshifts where I can (I'm almost always heel and toeing).

Bennoz wrote:Considering the time Boris has spent on the track, his experiences & opinions are as valid as the next blokes.

I never said his opinion wasnt valid Just cause i dont agree with him

And by the way, this:

Boris wrote:The quickest way to stop is actually without engine braking, as when you engine brake the brakes not only stop your car but have to slow your engine down too.

Is absolutely correct. When you're in gear & pulling up, your brakes are clamping on the discs, the discs are connected to your driveshafts, which are still connected to the drivetrain, the drivetrain is connected to the engine. So do the math.

Im not talking about engine breaking "only" vs using brakes "only", cause i definitly agree. I am talking about using a combination of brakes and engine breaking. As previously stated, you use engine breaking with breaks for a more controlled brake etc etc.
Lets look at what boris said

If you are entering a corner cruising, use your brakes. If you are on the track or are going for it downshifting is ok for keeping your RPM up for the corner exit.

Im sorry if i dont agree but i think that is BS. Even cruising if you enter a corner slightly faster (but not racing) than the optimum speed your now having to break in the corner. Now even when your doing driving lesson as a lerner you get taught that is a big NO NO. Now lets say, we add rain... breaking through the corner...... All i say is good luck

If you are entering a corner cruising, use your brakes. If you are on the track or are going for it downshifting is ok for keeping your RPM up for the corner exit.

Im sorry if i dont agree but i think that is BS. Even cruising if you enter a corner slightly faster (but not racing) than the optimum speed your now having to break in the corner. Now even when your doing driving lesson as a lerner you get taught that is a big NO NO. Now lets say, we add rain... breaking through the corner...... All i say is good luck

Simon, I never said you brake in the actual corner. You brake with or without engine braking before the corner, that's 101 of basic driving like you said.

All I meant to say in my quoted sentence was if you are just cruising around, I personally would be using only my brakes most of the time. If I was driving with spirit, yes I would use engine braking for more control and faster corner exits.

Boris wrote:

If you are entering a corner cruising, use your brakes. If you are on the track or are going for it downshifting is ok for keeping your RPM up for the corner exit.

Im sorry if i dont agree but i think that is BS. Even cruising if you enter a corner slightly faster (but not racing) than the optimum speed your now having to break in the corner. Now even when your doing driving lesson as a lerner you get taught that is a big NO NO. Now lets say, we add rain... breaking through the corner...... All i say is good luck

Simon, I never said you brake in the actual corner. You brake with or without engine braking before the corner, that's 101 of basic driving like you said.

All I meant to say in my quoted sentence was if you are just cruising around, I personally would be using only my brakes most of the time. If I was driving with spirit, yes I would use engine braking for more control and faster corner exits.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but I always use the gears to slow me even in the city... Is there a mechanical reason I shouldn't be?

Boris wrote:

If you are entering a corner cruising, use your brakes. If you are on the track or are going for it downshifting is ok for keeping your RPM up for the corner exit.

Im sorry if i dont agree but i think that is BS. Even cruising if you enter a corner slightly faster (but not racing) than the optimum speed your now having to break in the corner. Now even when your doing driving lesson as a lerner you get taught that is a big NO NO. Now lets say, we add rain... breaking through the corner...... All i say is good luck

Simon, I never said you brake in the actual corner. You brake with or without engine braking before the corner, that's 101 of basic driving like you said.

All I meant to say in my quoted sentence was if you are just cruising around, I personally would be using only my brakes most of the time. If I was driving with spirit, yes I would use engine braking for more control and faster corner exits.

So when are you changing gear, if your not changing before the corner..... during or after the apex? Why I ask is, apart from the potential performance benefits of down shifting before the corner, it is also about safety. No one should ever be rolling or coasting round a corner.