Danny's And Jeff's 6A13 turbo Conversions

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:03 pm

it almost sounds as if the gearbox suffering from chronic slippage... it's like being on 4th (D) at 50kph until you nail the throttle down the floor, and in that 0.50secs or so the car revs like mad before it engages the lower gear...

does it still rev like mad when you back off the throttle as you change to the next gear?

i'm assuming maybe the ECU that controls the 6A12 gearbox does not work properly with the signals fed by the 6A13 pulse generators? Is the Microtech connected to the gearbox ECU in any way? I know this has caused some problems in the past, particularly on Angela's car... I will try to find the Zoom magazine article at home which had a brief cover on this issue and get back to you.

my gut feeling tells me that it could be the gearbox ECU itself that's spitting the dummy (acting confused and sluggish when changing gears) and sorry, I don't have any other suggestion other than to go for a manual conversion (and trust me - you won't regret it hehehe).

Slither · Post by **Slither** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:54 pm

Sounds similar to a prob i get. Change gears and it revs higher for about a second then it clunks into gear with a noticeable jolt. Annoying as hell but only seems to hapen in the mid rev range

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:48 pm

having never looked or worked on the tiptronic boxes on the fto or the galant it is hard with out the VR4 wiring diagram or workshop manual, i been thinking about it for a few days and maybe it is related to a signal not coming from original FTO ECU to the ECU for the tiptronic, This is a difficult one but i would be getting in contact with microtech and telling them to sort out the problem with there computer, ring them up and send your old 6A12 computer too them with the LTX12 and tell them the problem and ask them to fix it.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:59 pm

Jeff all the 6A13 turbo conversion i know of are Manual.

But there is one 6A13 conversion i know of that is on a 4 speed tiptronic

here is a link to the page
http://www.kempys.co.nz/ftovk.htm
hope this helps

You will have to give them a ring and see what they can tell you.

here is link for there contact details
http://www.kempys.co.nz/

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:42 pm

Thanks for all the help everyone, but it looks as it is to no avail.
I definately agree with Danny the problem is in the microtech, but they wont fix it. They state it is the box. The auto people state it is the engine, and the engine people state it is the box.
I spoke to Peter at Kempys, and he did a straight swop and kept all the original wiring and ecu. It was a NA 6A13 so it worked fine. The problem with mine is a need the microtech to run the turboed engine. I now have a pressure sensor no longer an airflow meter.
So it looks as though I will be doing a manuel conversion.
If anyone is interested in buying a fully strengthened tip box ( 4 speed ) with trannsmission oil cooler, send me a PM/email.
Also I have a 6A12 non mivec up for sale.
Jeff

G_A_V · Post by **G_A_V** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:16 am

geeze, i didnt realise your old engine was a gr, how did wiring up the engine harness go, i heard the 6a12 mivec to 6a13 fits perfect, but the non mivec isnt

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:55 am

i would think about trying a differant computer first.

Maybe speak to autronics, ems, motec, haltech, see if any of those guys can help.

Once you go manual with the sort of power that the GT35/40 is capable of you will be having loads of clutch problems.

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:43 am

im almost sure i read somthing about a similar problem jeff on the internet a while ago.

a turbo'd fto (zoom magazine i think) im sure it came down to the map sensor, the needed to have a one way valve put in, because the computer was getting scambled when it was receiving a boost signal.

dont know it that will help. they were using the standard computer to control the tip.

i will try and find the article.

Black_FTOGPX · Post by **Black_FTOGPX** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:18 pm

Instead of doing a manual convertion why dont you get the box from the 6A13 TT as i have heard that you can make the box run as FWD only.

As i know a few guys in NZ have done this.

Tim-YFT · Post by **Tim-YFT** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:37 pm

THe article referred to the sensor in the gearbox going berko, so they used the sensor that came with the microtech LX12 and tossed the FTO one out with the trash or something. I could probably find the article if you want, it was a 2 part special on how they used a supra intercooler, garret dunno what size turbo etc... on an auto GPX FTO. They didnt upgrade the injectors and stuff though, they managed to get 150kw at the wheels eventually I think.

If not the article, I could find the name of the place that did the conversion so you can ring and ask them.

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:48 pm

yip thats the one Tim-YFT, i thought they may have just un plugged the map sensor? i have the pdf's at home i think, i cant find them on the net anymore.

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:24 pm

ok I've found the Zoom article y'all are talking about - hope this helps:

As soon as the FTO made it out onto the road, there was evidence that something was amiss. At part throttle conditions, the transmission behaved perfectly, but once some load (boost) was placed on it, the auto simply refused to properly shift gears. It wasn't the transmission itself slipping, it was an electronic bug - a bug that too Tim some time to track down.

The initial thought was to put a one-way valve in line with the MAP sensor for the factory computer, so no matter what happened, it could never receive boost pressure signal. With this being the only sensor that could 'tell' whether the FTO engine was making boost or not, it's only logical that a sudden influx of pressure would cause a problem. The only drama here was that the one-way valve did little to fix the problem.

It was only when Tim fully disconnected the factory MAP sensor (not a problem, since the Microtech has its own internal map sensor) that the problem disappeared. The flaring shifts were replaced with good solid gear engagement. The miracle is that disconnecting the sensor didn't affect anything else, such as idle control, or even set a "Check Engine" condition - you would at least expected it to do that.....

Bear in mind, the ECU used was an MTX12 on the 6A12 motor, not the 6A13. However, it 'should' still function the same way, depending onhow the ECU has been hooked up. You could give this a go and if it works, maaaate - you owe me a drive and a round of drinks!

;)

edit: "you owe me a 10-second car"

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:26 pm

oh by the way Tim, it was 121kw @ 6psi with std injectors, Garrett GT25 320hp turbo & Supra intercooler

let me just say this too: 150kw is NOT possible with std injectors unless you fit larger additional injectors (oh and make sure it's NOT controlled by a Hobbs switch!! lol...

)

to4garret · Post by **to4garret** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:36 pm

your a legend GPXXX, im surprised... my memory isnt as faded as i thought

fingers crossed it helps Jeff out

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:55 pm

sharing is caring

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:45 am

well done fellas

you got to love the internet

lets hope this sorts it out

Tim-YFT · Post by **Tim-YFT** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:00 pm

I don't have the magazine with me anymore for reference, but 121 sounds about right come to think. 150 did sound high to me for stock internals, but I don't care about that point, it was the sensor I was referring to that I was trying to help him with.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:19 pm

Thanks guys,
with this new info I may be able to keep my beloved tip box.
Heres hoping.
If I can`t , I`ve located a 6A12 manual box.
Danny I know the problem you have had with clutches, but have you had any problems with the box handling the power?
The guys at the workshop have custom built clutches made for all their drag cars ( 800 - 1000hp ) so they will put this in mine. It comes with a full guarentee and the guy replaces the pads when they wear out for nothing.
So if it comes to a manuel conversion, I am fairly happy the clutch will hold.
Thanks again.
Jeff

GPXXX · Post by **GPXXX** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:39 am

from memory i think dannyboy's gearbox was still holding itself together with 400hp at the wheels... (and that was using a custom twin-plate clutch).

i have a feeling that the clutch they'll be using on your car will not be very street friendly though hehehe... just remember, the stronger the clutch, the more stress will be placed on the gearbox itself.

dannyboyau · Post by **dannyboyau** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:53 am

Jeff wrote:Thanks guys,
with this new info I may be able to keep my beloved tip box.
Heres hoping.
If I can`t , I`ve located a 6A12 manual box.
Danny I know the problem you have had with clutches, but have you had any problems with the box handling the power?
The guys at the workshop have custom built clutches made for all their drag cars ( 800 - 1000hp ) so they will put this in mine. It comes with a full guarentee and the guy replaces the pads when they wear out for nothing.
So if it comes to a manuel conversion, I am fairly happy the clutch will hold.
Thanks again.
Jeff

I hope you get to keep your tiptronic,

I had one problem with 5 gear syncronizer sleve getting a slight burr on the teeth, rest of the box while i had it apart looked good and was no signs of wear.

I suggest you resist from smashing it in to second or third and definately avoid smashing it into 5th on full noise, as some of my young friends say

Is the manual box you found from a GPX and does it have a flywheel. if you dont buy it let me know i am still chasing a spare.

I will be on my 5th clutch design soon and will see how this works.

I am also leaving the driveshafts stock, is now the weakest point and is easiest to replace, works out a lot cheaper than gearboxs.

If you give your gearbox a little bit of respect, good oil and don't smash every gear change. It should last awhile