Apexi SAFC Neo

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:00 pm

i know...i know....somebody will say.....[search] first

i could only find little info on the NEO.

Now, here is the story. I went to Maytech@arncliffe and spoke to Mayan about my major service with some new parts fitting including RPW 65mm TB, manifold, extractors and new exhaust. He told me with all those stuff i would need an Apexi SAFC. I asked him back what about emanage (as many ppl here including Dave from RPW said emanage ultimate is better option), but Mayan rekon i dont need emanage as i will only need to alter AFC which the Apexi would be more than enough.

So, I went straight to ebay / internet to search for a SAFC-II. I found out the SAFC-II is actually discontinued (i now many places still sell them) and is replaced by the NEO. I saw on ebay.au the cheapest $415 including shipping, while from US, it will be around AUD$350 including shipping.

Here are my questions:

1. Is the NEO equal or better than SAFC-II on FTO (i like the colour screen by the way)?

2. If i buy from ebay US, would the product (functions) be the same? cos when i was looking at the JVC-AVX1 Head Unit, the US version is a little different to the AU version. So i just wanna make sure, as it will save me $60 odd dollars. I understand with the warranty issue also. Should i just go with the AU Seller?

3. Other comments??

Thanks guys.
Cheers

Richy

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:37 pm

From what i've heard, the neo is rubbish. ISMR installed one in a customer's car and it lost power no matter how it was tuned. They also installed an emanage ultimate in another customer's car and had problems with it. Said the ultimate still had some bugs to be ironed out.

From their experience, the safc2 is the best in the whole line up so far (in terms of apexi air fuel controllers).

My 2cents...grab a blue emanage (basic), they work great and if you've got enough mods, should see 6-10 kw atw gain. If you go safc2 and have some mods, should see 3-5kw atw gain. But the curve produced by the emanage is better due to ignition timing tweaks too.

With the mods you're planning, i'd definitely go an emanage basic (blue) unit. You can even order a straight plug and play harness for the fto.

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:44 pm

in that case....i will have a look and see what deal i can get on a emanage blue....

just a question....do u know the part no. for the harness for FTO of a emanage blue??

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:58 pm

Hey Richy,

Sorry i don't know it. Just call any reputable tuning garage and they should have a trust/greddy book with all part numbers and parts in there. It's in that book!

When you buy the emanage it'll come with a main harness that can be cut and tapped into your factory ecu wiring, but if you get the plugin harness, no cutting is required and you can install yourself very easily, but it does cost high $200s i think. I think it works out the same if you use the universal harness that it comes with but get it profesionally installed.

Edit - oh, make sure you tell them the model of your fto i.e. DE3A and the manufacture date. There's two versions in that book, one for pre 97 feb i think and one for post 97 feb.

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:44 pm

if i go with the emanage blue. do i need the Injector and ignition harness??

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:29 pm

If you decide to use the universal harness that comes with the emanage upon purchase, then yeah i'm pretty sure you need the injector and ignition harness. Can be had off ebay or autobarn can order them. The plug and play option shouldn't require any additional harnesses. GL, let us know what gains you got when you do it, post up a dyno graph...it should smooth out the curve a fair bit

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:33 pm

thanks. Delvance.

just shot an message to the ebay guy checking whether he has the DE3A harness, (if not) the total price with the injector & ignition harness and cd.

he sells the unit alone for us$307 including shipping to aus...does this sound like a good deal??

cant wait to have all the stuff my car

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:17 pm

That's not a bad price! Can't wait to see the gains and difference in feel you're going to get with those mods!

Post by **Bennoz** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:49 pm

Thats a good price

jonowong · Post by **jonowong** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:36 pm

sif theres a fto harness? i cant find one anywhere!

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:30 am

Sifn't! I could've ordered one in myself but sold my emanage!!!

It's in the Greddy book parts list y0!

jonowong · Post by **jonowong** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:12 am

expensive?

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:01 am

It was going to be around $250-$280 for me. Pretty good considering it saves you cutting into factory ecu wiring (so most people can install by themselves easily and quickly), and you don't have to buy the additional injector and ignition harness i guess!

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:16 am

i will give Mayan@maytech a ring tomorrow and see if he can source the harness first before i place an order from the ebay guy...

could someone confirm that for the use of an emanage on FTO, the blue is better than the ultimate ???

thanks guys..

rock_it · Post by **rock_it** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:47 am

From all the posts I have read on this site ... Blue seems to be the one that everyone says works best ... Something about comparability issues with the other... Any FTO that I have also seen for sale with a piggy back has always been the blue too ...

BUT ... For this, I would speak to your tuner, or one of the FTO places that people seem to refer on the boards, and see what they have to say...

I have seen a lot of advice given by forum members (not having a go at anyone here) in the past, which differs from the actual tuner... So look broadly when trying to find the answer...

Sorry that I can't be much more help then that....

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:44 pm

well, Mayan said just use an apexi safc as i am changing to 65mm tb and manifold, which afc needs to be altered. i asked him what about emanage, and he said i am altering anything else so its not much of use of an emanage as an emanage also only give adjustment of af ratio to upto 20%.

however, from what others said that with the emanage, the ignition timing and so on could be tuned too, thus allowing performance to be further improved. when i looked at the whole picture myself, if i am getting a piggy back, i might as well get a better one (in this case, the blue) since the cost difference between an apexi (neo) and the emanage blue isnt too much. i might as well, u know. cos i think with the blue i wont need to upgrade again in the future even with additional mods.

rock_it · Post by **rock_it** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Maybe even ask the opinion of one of the other FTO experts in a different state... They may confirm the blue is the way to go too ... But yeah, it does depend on what you want to do in the future...

When I was doing the evo conversion to my Sonata... I was going to run the stock ECU ... But I knew I was going to upgrade, and since I had to spring for wiring up an ECU anyway, I upgraded the the EMS 8860 ... So yeah, I know where you are coming from ...

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:51 pm

Yeah there's a flow adjustment difference between the two units but to be honest, the flow adjustment shouldn't go over 5% really. You won't need the full 50% adjustment of the safc2 as the stock ecu for the fto already does a decent job of keeping the afr around the 13 mark. Search these forums, you'll find one person who installed an safc2 and got a gain at top rpms (they posted up a dyno) only and another (Barfy i believe) who installed the emanage blue and as a result, his *whole* power curve shifted up (dyno also posted up). It's up to you i guess...i had a look at the curves myself...emanage gives more overall gain and the gain is everywhere with bit more gain at top than bottom whilst the safc2 gave less gains and also mostly at the top only.

I actually went for an safc2. Lightly tuned, the power curve for the fto is pretty straight and linear but drops off a bit at the top end, so the safc2 makes the car even more predictable/easier to drive when fanging it and makes the top end feel better. I also went safc2 because i'm poor

Delvance · Post by **Delvance** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:08 pm

For future reference when ppl ask about similar stuffs...

SAFC2 results, courtesy of Euro's thread.
HKS catback, ARC intake chamber and unprotected Apexi pod with SAFC2 tune. Gain 4.7kw atw.

Emanage basic/blue results, courtesy of Barfy's thread.
Jun BL 2.5" catback with emanage basic/blue tune. Gain ~8kw atw.

Note how the emanage has shifted the whole curve up...gains available irrespective of where in the rpm the engine's at whereas the safc2 is mostly top end gain only...not a bad thing if you're trying to improve the power curve and make it more linear. Your car...tune it the way you want.

Edit - adding words for search hits
emanage
safc
safc2
emanage vs safc
emanage vs safc2
piggyback